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Daniel Levy - Chairman

Agreed - it is me that has changed.

Honestly if we do start operating on the same level as our peers, I’ll be more than happy to be back aboard the ENIC train.

I just want success now - I’m pretty open about that. I don’t really care how we get there. I’m very thankful to ENIC that we built a stadium rather than having to purely live off of a benefactor who could leave at any time. But now we have it, I don’t see the difference between waiting 1 year or 10 years to really compete. I think we’ve waited long enough. And I want to start winning things. If it’s under ENIC, great. It it’s under someone else, also great. But I want to win things, I support Spurs and not the owners.
I fully get you want success...we all do.

The reason i was stating you have changed is I'm interested to know whether you thought the way you did because that is the type of person you are?. ie you value doing things 'the right way'? and is the journey to you, just as important as the destination?.

So would you except any owner?.

If we were doped and it all came our way quite quickly, would there be something missing for you?
 
I fully get you want success...we all do.

The reason i was stating you have changed is I'm interested to know whether you thought the way you did because that is the type of person you are?. ie you value doing things 'the right way'? and is the journey to you, just as important as the destination?.

So would you except any owner?.

If we were doped and it all came our way quite quickly, would there be something missing for you?

I think, if we were at the mercy of an owner that poured money into the squad ala Leeds, and let the infrastructure crumble, and who if they or we ran out of money or into regulatory trouble we would be really screwed, I would hate that. So I was always totally onboard with the idea we should build the right way, do it sustainably, because I wanted any success we had to be long lasting, I didn't want to plummet to League 1 because of a one CL semi final appearance.

I don't know which came first, the pragmatic idea that we should build sustainably because it gives us the best possible chance of succeeding in the long term, or the desire to 'do it right' to stick it to the oil money clubs. I think one probably fed the other. And I was all in with that. I was also all in with Poch, because I thought he was like all of us, and saw a way to get us there that was about doing things smarter, and building something that meant more, because it was built on solid foundations and you didn't skip your way there. I think when even he, a guy who seemingly is totally fine not needing the money that the other clubs needed, but had the best interests of Spurs at heart and just wanted to compete, when he seemingly thought the club weren't doing enough, that's when my trust in the ENIC plan started to waver. But I definitely did have a sense of pride that we were doing it the right way, likely underpinned by the understanding that if we didn't do it this way, any success if bought too early would be fleeting.

So right now, my feeling has changed. I don't think if we got bought this summer, spent a billion, and won the league, it would mean any less. I think we've done a couple of decades of really hard yards. Pragmatically speaking, we are now in a position that means if an owner decided to invest, having a 60k seater stadium and a strong global profile means at a minimum we should always sustainably be able to get ourselves back to being consistently in the top 6 if we ended up dropping for whatever reason. So that's good. I just think football as an asset class is now, at the top of the table, the preserve of people that are willing to spend and compete. I want some of that. That's the level of the playing field of the competitors we aspire to fight against.

It won't mean less to me. We have dealt with so much, lasagne, coming 4th in 2012, the stadium delays, Leicester having a freak of a season, Chelsea just being a run away train the next season, I think we've come so close with all of the constraints against us. Why not have the playing field levelled up?

Now we actually have the stadium, and the infrastructure of a tier 1 club, why not desire owners that will spend on the team in the same way? For ENIC, it is only ever going to be in line with their investment thesis. The numbers the club can spend will be bigger as a result of the better infrastructure, but it's still probably going to follow the risk profile that has been established already. They are an investment company after all. I just want the next investor up. I think we've earned it. ENIC have definitely earned their return.
 
Given the grotesquely uneven playing field that is the PL, I find this obsession with winning trophies laughable. You might just as well ask why Sheffield United are not hoovering up all the silverware.

The only way in my book to continue supporting Tottenham with hope in your heart is to adopt a smidgeon of realism and accept that if we do manage to win a major trophy it will be at least in part because we have overachieved and/or freaked it like Leicester did a few seasons back.

It does not help that we are now classed as one of the Big Six because when it comes to transfers there is still a gulf between us and the rest. They are all much bigger hitters in the transfer market and are still way ahead of us in the queue when it comes to attracting the top players.

So, like it or not, we are still the outsiders trying desperately to gatecrash the doped club's party. Snag is, the closer we come, the more determined they are to keep us locked out. That's the way it is and will continue to be for some considerable time to come imv.
 
Thats a Windows 10 error, shipped after Gates left MS.

Very late to that party ;)

Apparently, he owns £20-30b of Microsoft still. He's one of the few that could buy Spurs. It terms of rich individuals who want a plaything, the pool must be what 50 to 100 people who could? Globally. Otherwise, Spurs would be bought out by an investment vehicle. And ultimately that means Spurs generating a profit for its owners.
 
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Apparently, he owns £20-30b of Microsoft still. He's one of the few that could buy Spurs. It terms of rich individuals who want a plaything, the pool must be what 50 to 100 people who could? Globally. Otherwise, Spurs would be bought out by an investment vehicle. And ultimately that means Spurs generating a profit for its owners.
I would’ve thought that any investment vehicle buying a football club would be seeking to achieve their profit via asset growth. The only realistic way to do that right now is to ensure that club are one of the biggest clubs that will be able to exploit the streaming rights that are likely to come at some point in the not too distant future.
 
Given the grotesquely uneven playing field that is the PL, I find this obsession with winning trophies laughable. You might just as well ask why Sheffield United are not hoovering up all the silverware.

The only way in my book to continue supporting Tottenham with hope in your heart is to adopt a smidgeon of realism and accept that if we do manage to win a major trophy it will be at least in part because we have overachieved and/or freaked it like Leicester did a few seasons back.

It does not help that we are now classed as one of the Big Six because when it comes to transfers there is still a gulf between us and the rest. They are all much bigger hitters in the transfer market and are still way ahead of us in the queue when it comes to attracting the top players.

So, like it or not, we are still the outsiders trying desperately to gatecrash the doped club's party. Snag is, the closer we come, the more determined they are to keep us locked out. That's the way it is and will continue to be for some considerable time to come imv.

Good post. However, there are some positives. We can attract top players. The training center, London and the stadium might not trump more money but they don't harm our package. We can compete on some players, but unlike City etc we can't afford to fill the team with expensive talent, we still need a mix and balance. And history has taught us (Levy) that top money does not always correlate with top performances. Hungry up and coming players often outperform 'made it' stars.

The other positive is Levy's financial care. Not only do we attract cheap lending due to his prudence, we are also more agile than United, Pool, RM, who have must higher wages than us. And that will be hurting them now. Of course we are missing all that stadium revenue so it is hurting us too, but at least we are not as committed to wage expenditure as others. That puts us in a stronger position now.

Finally, history shows we are in the mix. We are making finals, we are in and around the top 4. Despite this titillation of fans and their disappointment when they don't get the full monty, it is a good thing. It shows we are doing the right things, and are competing. If we keep doing what we are doing, with incremental improvements the law of averages means we will win. And I hope we can become a dominant force with the stadium behind us.
 
Is there a country without a terrible human rights record?

Or a billionaire that isn’t some kind of criminal?

Two points of view

- Evil is evil, lesser, middling, greater, all the same (someone will get the quote)
- False equivalency is how truly bricky people get away with stuff

Leveraging tax loopholes and betting against markets may be ethically questionable but certainly can't compare to

- An actual modern country that uses (was built) on slave labor that results a significant amount of deaths per week using a club as a PR exercise
- A Russian oligarchy system that stripped state resources, divvied it up and has retained the status quo through public murder and uses a club as a plaything and means to launder money
 
Given the grotesquely uneven playing field that is the PL, I find this obsession with winning trophies laughable. You might just as well ask why Sheffield United are not hoovering up all the silverware.

The only way in my book to continue supporting Tottenham with hope in your heart is to adopt a smidgeon of realism and accept that if we do manage to win a major trophy it will be at least in part because we have overachieved and/or freaked it like Leicester did a few seasons back.

It does not help that we are now classed as one of the Big Six because when it comes to transfers there is still a gulf between us and the rest. They are all much bigger hitters in the transfer market and are still way ahead of us in the queue when it comes to attracting the top players.

So, like it or not, we are still the outsiders trying desperately to gatecrash the doped club's party. Snag is, the closer we come, the more determined they are to keep us locked out. That's the way it is and will continue to be for some considerable time to come imv.

I just find this to be a really depressing take. None of what I have been arguing is against the reality of where we currently find ourselves as a club, I totally acknowledge that. But I’m just imagining a world where at some point, ENIC sell and we have new owners willing to invest a bit more. What exactly is wrong with that? How is a desire to win trophies laughable?

I don’t actually think it is beyond the realms of reality that ENIC sell relatively soon, now the stadium has been built. I’m not asking / hoping for some fantasy that doesn’t have a chance of happening. Your post seems to suggest ENIC is the only way, and we should buckle in and accept our lot for the foreseeable. As a fan who wants to see his club win, I don’t quite understand why.
 
I would’ve thought that any investment vehicle buying a football club would be seeking to achieve their profit via asset growth. The only realistic way to do that right now is to ensure that club are one of the biggest clubs that will be able to exploit the streaming rights that are likely to come at some point in the not too distant future.
Or join a super league:D

I think what has hurt the American owners, and Barca and Madrid is the relentless competition to keep pace and relevant, that has only inflated wages and transfer fees of the best players as they try to keep pace.

Owners that want profit for themselves are finding it increasingly difficult to find that as the extra cash just goes on chasing those players to keep pace and chase limited prizes. (There are only so many 'winners')

The doped clubs ability to be able to buy £50m duds, and then move on to the next player and not feel any pain or consequence of that mistep, that's their greatest advantage.

Player cost so much compared to the profit these clubs are hoping to turn.
 
I just find this to be a really depressing take. None of what I have been arguing is against the reality of where we currently find ourselves as a club, I totally acknowledge that. But I’m just imagining a world where at some point, ENIC sell and we have new owners willing to invest a bit more. What exactly is wrong with that? How is a desire to win trophies laughable?

I don’t actually think it is beyond the realms of reality that ENIC sell relatively soon, now the stadium has been built. I’m not asking / hoping for some fantasy that doesn’t have a chance of happening. Your post seems to suggest ENIC is the only way, and we should buckle in and accept our lot for the foreseeable. As a fan who wants to see his club win, I don’t quite understand why.

I have been hearing that from s ome supporters for years, " we will never go anywhere under Levy", "We will never get any bigger", " he will never build the stadium" " he will get the planning permission and then sell" and on and on.
,
 
I just find this to be a really depressing take. None of what I have been arguing is against the reality of where we currently find ourselves as a club, I totally acknowledge that. But I’m just imagining a world where at some point, ENIC sell and we have new owners willing to invest a bit more. What exactly is wrong with that? How is a desire to win trophies laughable?

I don’t actually think it is beyond the realms of reality that ENIC sell relatively soon, now the stadium has been built. I’m not asking / hoping for some fantasy that doesn’t have a chance of happening. Your post seems to suggest ENIC is the only way, and we should buckle in and accept our lot for the foreseeable. As a fan who wants to see his club win, I don’t quite understand why.
Can I firstly applaud you for arguing your point in an incredibly respectful way over the past few pages? A lot of people could learn a lot from your approach. Engaging with others, seeking to understand and articulating passionately and clearly. Well done sir and welcome back. This forum always needs posters like you.

However, I do disagree with your view; the bit I take particular issue with is that one of the main cruxes of your argument is that you’re fed up with others poking fun at our lack of trophies. As in life, paying attention to others, particularly those that are not part of your nearest and dearest, can be a road to perpetual anxiety and angst. Not that you’re after advice, but I’d still say, shut out that noise, if you can, and enjoy the ride. It’s the journey, not the destination, that matters. It’s why I can still have a signed 2018/19 shirt up in my office and beam at it with pride, remembering Ajax, remembering City and not feel the need to take it down for daily Zoom calls, in spite of colleagues constantly jabbing with their ‘but what have you won?’ jibes.

At least that’s my view and your welcome to disagree with it should you want to.
 
I have been hearing that from s ome supporters for years, " we will never go anywhere under Levy", "We will never get any bigger", " he will never build the stadium" " he will get the planning permission and then sell" and on and on.
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Tbf levy himself has said Tottenham is always for sale. Just nobody yet has matched enics valuation.
The Saudi Sportswashing Machine court case revealed that we are looking for a buyer. We allegedly asked the Saudis.

Now would probably be the wrong time to get max value for the club. After covid most of the clubs in europe are in finacial difficulty. You could pick and choose which club you wanted to buy. Our debt would also (hopefully) put off a leveraged buyout. So you are looking for a buyer with very deep pockets. If you did have that sort of money it would probably be cheaper to buy a smaller club and try to build it up.
 
Tbf levy himself has said Tottenham is always for sale. Just nobody yet has matched enics valuation.
The Saudi Sportswashing Machine court case revealed that we are looking for a buyer. We allegedly asked the Saudis.

Not sure this was in the court case, if it was it would have been widely reported. I think it was a bitter 'castle employee who claimed other clubs had approached the Saudis? Any quote from DL re. always for sale?
 
Tbf levy himself has said Tottenham is always for sale. Just nobody yet has matched enics valuation.
The Saudi Sportswashing Machine court case revealed that we are looking for a buyer. We allegedly asked the Saudis.

Now would probably be the wrong time to get max value for the club. After covid most of the clubs in europe are in finacial difficulty. You could pick and choose which club you wanted to buy. Our debt would also (hopefully) put off a leveraged buyout. So you are looking for a buyer with very deep pockets. If you did have that sort of money it would probably be cheaper to buy a smaller club and try to build it up.

Any quotes on that????
 
I have been hearing that from s ome supporters for years, " we will never go anywhere under Levy", "We will never get any bigger", " he will never build the stadium" " he will get the planning permission and then sell" and on and on.
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From which Spurs fans did you hear that we would never build the stadium? I don't remember seeing/hearing that sort of rhetoric on Spurs forums?
 
From which Spurs fans did you hear that we would never build the stadium? I don't remember seeing/hearing that sort of rhetoric on Spurs forums?

You mean you did not want to hear it, it was on several forums and also said at matches and in the pubs on a lot of occasions. Believe it or not.:rolleyes:
 
I have been hearing that from s ome supporters for years, " we will never go anywhere under Levy", "We will never get any bigger", " he will never build the stadium" " he will get the planning permission and then sell" and on and on.
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If some fans were saying we would never build the stadium, surely they were just totally wrong? I was never worried we wouldn’t build it. Everything they did, every tea leave to read suggested that the way to build the value of the club was to build the stadium. It was in their interest to do and they pulled it off, magnificently.

I think it was the biggest part of their ability to increase the valuation and that now leads to me thinking with them...what next? Do they have the second act? Was a sustained run with the stadium ever in their plan? Are they the best people to continue with this second act? I think these are fair questions.
 
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