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Coronavirus

Do you guys think there will be restrictions put on those who don't want the vaccine
My Mrs is totally against it, said no chance she is putting something into her which hasn't been tested for the correct amount of time
I think some countries might say next summer you can't come on holiday here without proof of a vaccination, etc
 
If fatality was at 0.001% then had the whole of the uk been infected the death toll would be expected to come to 680 or so.

So In reality it’s getting onto 1000 times worse than that.

Well i was talking worldwide fatality rate, but it was an estimation. The fatality rate was certainly not worse than other big killers such as seasonal flu, TB and other respiratory diseases, and you have to bear in mind that unlike most of those other conditions, we are actively looking for covid-19 cases with all the mass testing via PCR...

If i get the chance i'll try and get some good articles/links posted
 
Ok, let me explain in more detail.

The way the covid-19 daily figures are collated is as follows:

When a patient dies in hospital they are counted towards the daily covid-19 figures we get reported every day if they had a positive test (from the PCR) within 28 days prior of the date of death.
Patients who are admitted to hospital are routinely tested for covid-19 in all or nearly all hospitals.

Scenario:
A patient say on 1st August (who was asymptomatic) booked a covid-19 test because they were a contact of someone else they knew who was a positive case. They do the test and a day later on the 2nd the result comes back and surprisingly (they are asymptomatic after all) the result is that they are positive. They follow the rules as appropriate and isolate for 14 days.
They go about their life as normal after that but tragically on the 24th August they are involved in a bad road collision on their way to work. They are taken to hospital and admitted to a critical care ward and are on life-support due to their severe internal injuries. Two days later the prognosis worsens and sadly the family decide that life support is stopped and the person dies due to the multiple organ failure as a result of the collision. Upon admission this person actually had a covid-19 test which came back negative.
However, because of the positive result from earlier in the month this road traffic accident death is added to the daily covid-19 death figures due to the fact they link this death via the personal details (NHS Number, DOBs, name etc) to the database that holds all the covid-19 positive tests.

The only way in the current system would the above RTA death not be added as a covid-19 death is if the gap between this person's last positive result and the date they died was more than 28 days. No other nuance or rules are applied.

So it's not a case of any indivual nurse or doctor "inflating numbers" but the system without nuances and the tests.

You could change the abive reason for death to be seasonal flu, diabetes, cancer, injury from stabbing etc because of the constant testing on admission, the PCR inaccuracies, the fact that several asymptomatic people can test positive then you can see how the numbers might be very inflated.

In fact, do you remember when a national research unit pointed out that anybody who died and who had ever tested positive for coronavirus even if it was over 6 months ago were being added to the daily totals being reported? PHE had to 'refine' how they counted the deaths and the numbers came down by a few thousand. But you can still see that even with the '28 day refinement' how the numbers can still be inflated.

I hope that makes more sense?

Well done for fleshing that out more. If you think what you posted below comes close to making any of the points you make above it might need a rewrite?

I did notice in the latest ONS figure flu/pneumonia deaths were well above Covid for July and August (data only went up to end August)
Some would cynically say that flu deaths have almost disappeared worldwide...like some deaths where they would have tested for the flu virus they now don't bother because everyone admitted to hospital instead gets the PCR covid-19 test...so we might now be labeling some deaths that we previously attributed to flu just as covid-19.

Why are you against any lockdowns per se?

And don't go all Icke on me as I'll 100% disengage:D
 
Well done for fleshing that out more. If you think what you posted below comes close to making any of the points you make above it might need a rewrite?

I did notice in the latest ONS figure flu/pneumonia deaths were well above Covid for July and August (data only went up to end August)

It's very strange that flu death tallies seem so hard to find now; and this after they decided to make the weekly influenza reports a combined covid and influenza report, but they don't have flu deaths tallied alongside covid deaths, just some (relative) guff about what the situation is worldwide or in Europe.

Why are you against any lockdowns per se?

And don't go all Icke on me as I'll 400% disengage:D

I don't know what going all Icke means, but it's what i've been saying previously:

1) the dangers from the virus are not much worse than the worst seasonal flu years we've seen when you look at the numbers (which themselves have issues as i've outlined)

2) we actually make ourselves weaker from an immune system point of view to the virus (and other infections that are 'out there' generally) when we lock our bodies away: our immune systems get better when they face bugs and make a point to improve our personal hygiene as we do it

3) they are now being labelled as 'anti-scientific' by a bigger and growing cohort of scientists and doctors around both here and internationally (often point number 2 being cited as one of the factors)

4) the destruction of the economy because of what imo has been excessive fear to get on with life and take risks as appropriate seems not worth it giving the fact that most people get a very mild illness if they catch it and the fact that cancer interventions and suicides are up again adds to the minus column

5) governments have never had it so good with regards to power over their populations via these lockdowns and i fear they aint gonna give them up anytime soon (regardless of if we have 'flatten the curve', an effective and well-tested vaccine is rolled out etc)
 
Well i was talking worldwide fatality rate, but it was an estimation. The fatality rate was certainly not worse than other big killers such as seasonal flu, TB and other respiratory diseases, and you have to bear in mind that unlike most of those other conditions, we are actively looking for covid-19 cases with all the mass testing via PCR...

If i get the chance i'll try and get some good articles/links posted

That’s fair enough. It’s a minefield isn’t it. The pcr is excessively sensitive and giving many false positives. Meanwhile nobody really knows how many people are now immune and if that immunity is because they already fought off covid or had some prior cross Immunity.
 

some cool heads were involved in that study - proper science. Not sure about the twitter doctor the whole twittersphere is so at odds with measured and deep scientific analysis and his tweet there just goes to highlight that.

Oh and respect to the subjects at ouh - it must have been a right royal pain getting regularly tested especially after a covid infection.
 
some cool heads were involved in that study - proper science. Not sure about the twitter doctor the whole twittersphere is so at odds with measured and deep scientific analysis and his tweet there just goes to highlight that.

Oh and respect to the subjects at ouh - it must have been a right royal pain getting regularly tested especially after a covid infection.

You are right about the twittersphere; but sadly i feel this is going to become much more like this because:

1) there is a information/culture war going on with covid and doctors who don't have big corporate media to reflect their views/findings like the likes of SAGE do get lost in the wind as it were; so they are having to resort to getting their messages across using soundbytes (which is a bit cheap but the nature of the communication b.east where the public/laymen are involved)

2) time seems not to be on the side of scientists/academics on social media and if they present anything that goes against certain grains they have their material censored or removed: look at this quite glaring example:
So in short, they are having to become Kardashians at times to get their point across quickly and concisely to try and capture people who might be interested in taking more time to look deeper into the subject in question..
 
That’s fair enough. It’s a minefield isn’t it. The pcr is excessively sensitive and giving many false positives. Meanwhile nobody really knows how many people are now immune and if that immunity is because they already fought off covid or had some prior cross Immunity.
The PCR test is being made over sensitive due to to many cycles, I don't know why that has come about.
 
It's very strange that flu death tallies seem so hard to find now; and this after they decided to make the weekly influenza reports a combined covid and influenza report, but they don't have flu deaths tallied alongside covid deaths, just some (relative) guff about what the situation is worldwide or in Europe.



I don't know what going all Icke means, but it's what i've been saying previously:

1) the dangers from the virus are not much worse than the worst seasonal flu years we've seen when you look at the numbers (which themselves have issues as i've outlined)

2) we actually make ourselves weaker from an immune system point of view to the virus (and other infections that are 'out there' generally) when we lock our bodies away: our immune systems get better when they face bugs and make a point to improve our personal hygiene as we do it

3) they are now being labelled as 'anti-scientific' by a bigger and growing cohort of scientists and doctors around both here and internationally (often point number 2 being cited as one of the factors)

4) the destruction of the economy because of what imo has been excessive fear to get on with life and take risks as appropriate seems not worth it giving the fact that most people get a very mild illness if they catch it and the fact that cancer interventions and suicides are up again adds to the minus column

5) governments have never had it so good with regards to power over their populations via these lockdowns and i fear they aint gonna give them up anytime soon (regardless of if we have 'flatten the curve', an effective and well-tested vaccine is rolled out etc)
By Icke I mean David Icke, the tin foil hat supremo.

I agree with many of your points, and I don't like lockdowns as an ongoing intervention. It is just a reset, and with that reset you are meant to learn, discover and be more smart with your approach.

For eg. If the data really shows deaths and severe illness is miniscule in under 60s, you have to get them back into society. And if we discover (as it appears) that immunity (antibodies and t/b cells) is obtained, that is only good for others. A head start as we wait for vaccine s.

I would debate your 5th point. Your implying something bigger is going on? And I always like to ask, have you reasoned out your view or thought it thru to some conclusions. Why would the government love lockdowns (it's surely the expensive option for them) ? What 'power' are they gaining, I'm not feeling that at all (weakness mor like). Is their fear of overwhelming hospitals a fallacy? And they have control and manipulation of all data to falsify that claim.
What is their ulterior gain from a pandemic? If anything it looks like the destruction of there own reputations.
 
I realised quick that bickering with four Ozzies is like a grandmaster of chess, simultaneously beating 6 schoolkids; it's no fun for anyone really.

Wow, you’ve been smoking scaras arrogance pipe. Funny how in this particular case, you’ve been making yourself look particularly blinkered and misinformed. Clearly not much of a grandmaster or mathematician it seems.

Yeah so you've made a massive assumption to guess who I am referring to. As I said, no need to carry on as it's been derailed because mouthbreathers can't figure out subtext :eek:

It’s ok for you assume I’m an Australian. Which I’m not. Some shock news for you, it’s possible to move to another country in order to find a better life.
 
More like the English play fighting with their slightly retarded little brother.

The younger brother often rages because he can't understand what is going on all the time, and irritates the big brother. There's genuine love there - we wouldn't ever want to see the little brother properly hurt, like from an ISIS mental or something, but he's still a pain in the arse.

My godson has Down syndrome and i take huge offense to your post. It’s not unexpected though which says a lot.

Your similarities to trump seem to be an ever growing list. Are you a slight shade of orange too?

Like i said a few pages back, neither you or others on here seem spectacularly misinformed when it comes to Australia and have been found lacking in both basic knowledge or personal experience about the country, yet you think it’s ok to spout antagonistic posts day after day. You try and act like some kind of message board bully, which has caused several people to stop posting over the last couple of years. Seems like maybe you’re over compensating for something or bitter about a moment in your past. Feel safe to air your grievances, maybe we can we help.
 
Wow, you’ve been smoking scaras arrogance pipe. Funny how in this particular case, you’ve been making yourself look particularly blinkered and misinformed. Clearly not much of a grandmaster or mathematician it seems.



It’s ok for you assume I’m an Australian. Which I’m not. Some shock news for you, it’s possible to move to another country in order to find a better life.

There isn’t actually a ratio to equate Ozzies to school kids..I just took a swing at it.

Can you honestly stop helping me enjoy myself so much? Your post is fudging poetry and is funny as fudge bit as I said, trying to wrap it up here.

There might be a thread for butthurt wannabe Australians or something ‍♂️


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
My godson has Down syndrome and i take huge offense to your post. It’s not unexpected though which says a lot.

Your similarities to trump seem to be an ever growing list. Are you a slight shade of orange too?

Like i said a few pages back, neither you or others on here seem spectacularly misinformed when it comes to Australia and have been found lacking in both basic knowledge or personal experience about the country, yet you think it’s ok to spout antagonistic posts day after day. You try and act like some kind of message board bully, which has caused several people to stop posting over the last couple of years. Seems like maybe you’re over compensating for something or bitter about a moment in your past. Feel safe to air your grievances, maybe we can we help.
Do you consider your godson retarded?

I think a lot of people with Down's Syndrome and their families would find that insulting.

You also missed the clear affection for Australians in my post - something I doubt most of the northern hemisphere would be able to show.
 
Do you consider your godson retarded?

I think a lot of people with Down's Syndrome and their families would find that insulting.

You also missed the clear affection for Australians in my post - something I doubt most of the northern hemisphere would be able to show.

So what did you mean when you used the word retarded?
 
retarded
/rɪˈtɑːdɪd/
adjective
  1. OFFENSIVE - DATED
    less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.

I didn’t ask what the Collins Oxford says.

It’s pretty obvious that when people use the word retarded, they’re implying something more offensive.
 
I didn’t ask what the Collins Oxford says.

It’s pretty obvious that when people use the word retarded, they’re implying something more offensive.
Speak for yourself.

Whilst my use of English can be lazy at times, my choices of words are always intentional and precise. I can understand that might not always be the case in a place where suits come with shorts.
 
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