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Dele Alli

Jurgen the German said:
Well his goal tally did drop after his first two seasons, I don’t think that’s debatable really, just look at the stats. I also don’t think he’s versatile enough. He can’t play on the wing as he has no pace, can’t play deeper etc. Look I think it’s a mistake to actively sell him but I do also believe he needs a kick up the arse. He’s not a shoe in for England either, he got dropped by Southgate well before Jose was our manager so it’s not even a case of one manager making an example of him.
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15/16 - 21 goals/assists from 46 games
16/17 - 35 goals/assists from 50 games
17/18 - 31 goals/assists from 50 games

I don’t disagree that there might be something in it. I’m just sticking to facts that’s all. His goal/assist tally was absolutely fine in season 3.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yeah he would have better numbers but scholes was part of a 4-4-2 and he played CM, lampard did too and was at West Ham I think until he was 22/23

Dele could step up
He hasn’t yet, but he has the talent
I’m not sure where he fits in the site up so he would have to adapt there
And he needs to work on his game with his long passing and using his left foot for more than standing on
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I think my main issue is ‘Dele could step up’

I actually think he maybe couldn’t step up the last 2 seasons.

18/19 injured post World Cup and played deeper.
19/20 Kane, Son and Eriksen missed loads. Is he supposed to feed off Moura and Sissoko at the same rate as he did off the other 3 in the previous seasons?

I didn’t expect him to step up in the last 2 seasons given the circumstances.

Does everyone think he should step up in those circumstances? Pretty unrealistic if you ask me.
 
Benny_Lad said:
Yep. Hence I didn’t mention the City game (which was quite a few weeks ahead of the final).

Merely stated he’d drifted out of form when the final came round. And I’m his biggest fan.

FWIW I would have picked the same team Poch did. Nothing against Moura but it’s a CL final and you don’t leave out your X factor players.
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I don’t disagree with the logic there, I just don’t think Alli has been an X factor player for us for a couple of years. And going on form he didn’t deserve to start IMO.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don’t disagree with the logic there, I just don’t think Alli has been an X factor player for us for a couple of years. And going on form he didn’t deserve to start IMO.
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Fair do’s. It’s a fine line and a matter of opinions.

I’d like to take a poll on here and see how many think he would produce the old numbers playing with Son and Bale either side and Kane up top.

I’d be supremely confident he’d do very well.
 
Benny_Lad said:
15/16 - 21 goals/assists from 46 games
16/17 - 35 goals/assists from 50 games
17/18 - 31 goals/assists from 50 games

I don’t disagree that there might be something in it. I’m just sticking to facts that’s all. His goal/assist tally was absolutely fine in season 3.
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I take your point about his stats overall. But his goal tally halved and then declined again the following season. He briefly looked like he was turning it around again in the early Jose days but hasn’t done much since Xmas time. I struggle to see where he fits in with the current lineup when you add Bale to the team, he will need to adapt his game.
 
Benny_Lad said:
Fair do’s. It’s a fine line and a matter of opinions.

I’d like to take a poll on here and see how many think he would produce the old numbers playing with Son and Bale either side and Kane up top.

I’d be supremely confident he’d do very well.
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I think he would be lost as he wouldn’t be able to keep up
We have two players with passing range in bale and Kane
Two with pace to burn in son and bale
And two who consistently bang in goals in the Kane and son, plus Bale would easily get back to a decent Return
We need a player behind them who can pass well, not target the opposition area did his best actions. Lo Celso or a tubby do that much better than Dele
Deles best work came with Eriksen as a creator behind and we don’t have or need that role now in the same way
 
90291Spur said:
He has been X factor, but not consistently so. For one example, the CL semi against Ajax.
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But one assist versus a hat trick doesn’t stack up for me. I get that Moura has a lot of doubters on here and I’ve never argued that he doesn’t need to improve his overall play, particularly stop dribbling into blind alleys and turning over possession. But his form the CL that year was excellent. Got vital goals against Barca and PSV not to mention Ajax. I was just surprised to see Alli start the match and then for Poch to take 80 mins to take him off when it was clear he was having an off day. Most of the team did to be fair though.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think he would be lost as he wouldn’t be able to keep up
We have two players with passing range in bale and Kane
Two with pace to burn in son and bale
And two who consistently bang in goals in the Kane and son, plus Bale would easily get back to a decent Return
We need a player behind them who can pass well, not target the opposition area did his best actions. Lo Celso or a tubby do that much better than Dele
Deles best work came with Eriksen as a creator behind and we don’t have or need that role now in the same way
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I don't think that's necessarily true. If we continue to play on the break, a front four of Kane, Son, Dele and Bale could work. I agree that we'd need one of Ndombele or Lo Celso in central midfield but with the fullbacks also getting forward, supply doesn't have to be a problem.
 
milo said:
I don't think that's necessarily true. If we continue to play on the break, a front four of Kane, Son, Dele and Bale could work. I agree that we'd need one of Ndombele or Lo Celso in central midfield but with the fullbacks also getting forward, supply doesn't have to be a problem.
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Actually you don’t really need a creative midfielder with those 4 imo. Liverpool won the league with grafters in CM and fire power up top supported by quality full backs.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I take your point about his stats overall. But his goal tally halved and then declined again the following season. He briefly looked like he was turning it around again in the early Jose days but hasn’t done much since Xmas time. I struggle to see where he fits in with the current lineup when you add Bale to the team, he will need to adapt his game.
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It’s almost as though the players he thrives off most were unavailable from around Xmas time....Kane injured, Son injured, Eriksen sold.

He was doing just fine until the above.
 
He'd score 20+ goals a season in City's team.
He was world class getting on the end of things finding space in the box when he was playing for a possession team.
Spurs haven't been that for years now. Once Wanyama and Dembele declined we turned into a team with no control of midfield.
 
Modric THFC said:
He'd score 20+ goals a season in City's team.
He was world class getting on the end of things finding space in the box when he was playing for a possession team.
Spurs haven't been that for years now. Once Wanyama and Dembele declined we turned into a team with no control of midfield.
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Well City better come in with £60m and Gundogan (minus the covid) offer and he can go there then.
 
That last post was a brilliant historic breakdown of Dele, and echos things many of us have said over the last few years with regards to position; I still bristle thinking about how denigrated his World Cup was, when in truth it allowed Southgate to get another attacking player on the pitch.

The single biggest factor in Dele's game now is Dele. Does he want it? I hope so, I really do, because he is a brilliant talent who could go all the way. equally, he could drift and fade away. I hope upon hope it is the former, as if he hits his potential on a regular basis, there are few better than him IMO. But he has to want it.
 
thfcsteff said:
That last post was a brilliant historic breakdown of Dele, and echos things many of us have said over the last few years with regards to position; I still bristle thinking about how denigrated his World Cup was, when in truth it allowed Southgate to get another attacking player on the pitch.

The single biggest factor in Dele's game now is Dele. Does he want it? I hope so, I really do, because he is a brilliant talent who could go all the way. equally, he could drift and fade away. I hope upon hope it is the former, as if he hits his potential on a regular basis, there are few better than him IMO. But he has to want it.
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I was surprised to hear in the amazon documentary that he wasn't a good trainer. Not trying to start another Pochettino discussion, but strange how that was allowed to continue.

It is up to him to a large degree. And it starts with effort and dedication on the training ground.

He's excellent at the things he does well, somewhat average at a lot of things. He's been really successful in one rather specific role. If that's the only role he can play at the highest level either he has to perform consistently at a level where Mourinho (or some other manager) has to make room for a player in that role in the team. If he can step up and play other roles he'll have a much easier time succeeding.
 
thfcsteff said:
That last post was a brilliant historic breakdown of Dele, and echos things many of us have said over the last few years with regards to position; I still bristle thinking about how denigrated his World Cup was, when in truth it allowed Southgate to get another attacking player on the pitch.

The single biggest factor in Dele's game now is Dele. Does he want it? I hope so, I really do, because he is a brilliant talent who could go all the way. equally, he could drift and fade away. I hope upon hope it is the former, as if he hits his potential on a regular basis, there are few better than him IMO. But he has to want it.
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Yes, I agree, it was good analysis and what a lot of us have said.

I agree that whether he 'wants it' is a huge factor in where his career goes, however I also think that he needs to leave Spurs. We're clearly going to play 3 up top and I dont think he fits into that formation as it means he needs to play deeper, which doesnt suit him. Jose isn't going to change his plans for Dele so I think its best for all parties if we sell him.

I'm not sure that PSG is a good fit for him though - they also play 4-3-3 and if he's a lazy trainer then moving to a team of prima-donnas and in a league where you could turn up with a hangover but still win half the time isn't great for him (not saying that he does that - just the standard of the league). Dele needs to find a team/formation/manager which suits him and which will provide the discipline that he needs
 
Modric THFC said:
He'd score 20+ goals a season in City's team.
He was world class getting on the end of things finding space in the box when he was playing for a possession team.
Spurs haven't been that for years now. Once Wanyama and Dembele declined we turned into a team with no control of midfield.
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A lot of players would get 20+ goals playing for city. Sterling regularly gets that amount and he misses chances to get even more. Seems that Dele’s role is rather niche if he’s relying on others to create for him. I don’t deny we miss players like Eriksen and Dembele but Son and Kane have still managed to get goals in their absence.
 
To me how ele Alli's career goes from here will be a symbol of how long players who are "natural street footballers" can have careers at the top of the game...

The game is sadly much more regimented than before and perhaps even Gazza might have struggled to have a career if he was starting out now (not that i'm putting Alli anywhere near Gazza's natural skill levels btw, i'm just making the point about natual skills vs tactical utility vs mastering a particular position)
 
He'd have to get into City's team first!! Pep is flexible with formations so it wouldnt surprise you if he played Dele as a false 9 or something like that however:

- we aren't City and can't carry players like they can. They get far more of the ball than we do
- City generally play with a holding CM and two ball-players in midfield. Dele is not a playmaker like David Silva, KdB or Foden or..or..or... He wouldnt get in their midfield
 
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