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Cheating in sport

Wilheldiva said:
theres definitely merit in this argument, however if you play to this (however moral the stance is), you simply will not be competitive in most sports, both at an amateur and professional level.

- had cyclists not doped during the armstrong era, they may have been praiseworthy, but they certainly wouldnt have won and no-one would have even heard of them to praise them.
- in football, if you refuse to pull the odd shirt, and nudge players here and there, you wont be playing at a very high level even as an amateur.

essentially you can either choose not to participate in sports or be a badminton player (as mourinho once put it :D)
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That's fine you think it's ok to cheat, I don't. As I've written before I played to win in any game, football, cricket, snooker, cards etc because I liked the game and competition, I may have fouled a players or appealed for a wicket by mistake but never intended to do so. When you cheat you're doing it to both yourself and opponent, how can you have any self respect?
 
Wilheldiva said:
theres definitely merit in this argument, however if you play to this (however moral the stance is), you simply will not be competitive in most sports, both at an amateur and professional level.

- had cyclists not doped during the armstrong era, they may have been praiseworthy, but they certainly wouldnt have won and no-one would have even heard of them to praise them.
- in football, if you refuse to pull the odd shirt, and nudge players here and there, you wont be playing at a very high level even as an amateur.

essentially you can either choose not to participate in sports or be a badminton player (as mourinho once put it :D)
Click to expand...
Gary Lineker was derided by some for being a saint because throughout his career he never got booked or sent off, indeed rarely ever fouled. He didn't need to, his game was all about using intelligence, anticipation, positional awareness, speed and guile as well as sheer skill to outwit the opposition.

Also didn't Toby go through the whole of season 2016/17 having conceded only four fouls?*

*Edit: Just checked, the claim was he committed only one foul every four games. Still an amazing stat.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/5psori
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
That's fine you think it's ok to cheat, I don't. As I've written before I played to win in any game, football, cricket, snooker, cards etc because I liked the game and competition, I may have fouled a players or appealed for a wicket by mistake but never intended to do so. When you cheat you're doing it to both yourself and opponent, how can you have any self respect?
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If the rules are interpreted and enforced by referees in a particular way, then implicitly those are the rules.

Nobody drives at 70mph because the rules are enforced at 1.1x + 2. Similarly, defenders can nudge a forward as they are about to jump and pull them about (to an extent) without being ruled on.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Gary Lineker was derided by some for being a saint because throughout his career he never got booked or sent off, indeed rarely ever fouled. He didn't need to, his game was all about using intelligence, anticipation, positional awareness, speed and guile as well as sheer skill to outwit the opposition.

Also didn't Toby go through the whole of season 2016/17 having conceded only four fouls?*

*Edit: Just checked, the claim was he committed only one foul every four games. Still an amazing stat.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/5psori
Click to expand...

Alderweirweld "cheated" far more than one foul every four games, he was simply only called out for it once every four games. to use an analogy, its similar to how maradona didnt score any foul goals against england in 86. most of the fouling/cheating in football is so accepted, that you wouldnt even notice it unless you were looking out for it. your brain is programmed to skip over it. like i said, theres a tonne of little tugging that goes on every moment in football, but we just accept it. its probably not too dissimilar to how some sporting organisations gloss over the fact that some of their star athletes have weird drug test results - its just accepted as how it is.

by the letter of the law, football should be played with as much contact as a sport like basketball. not even messi would be a pro footballer if he one day decided to play to the letter of the law.
 
Wilheldiva said:
Alderweirweld "cheated" far more than one foul every four games, he was simply only called out for it once every four games. to use an analogy, its similar to how maradona didnt score any foul goals against england in 86. most of the fouling/cheating in football is so accepted, that you wouldnt even notice it unless you were looking out for it. your brain is programmed to skip over it. like i said, theres a tonne of little tugging that goes on every moment in football, but we just accept it. its probably not too dissimilar to how some sporting organisations gloss over the fact that some of their star athletes have weird drug test results - its just accepted as how it is.

by the letter of the law, football should be played with as much contact as a sport like basketball. not even messi would be a pro footballer if he one day decided to play to the letter of the law.
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I do take your point, even so I'd venture few would argue that for a CB one penalised foul every four games is exceptional. Maybe that season was just an outlier because his rate of infringements since seems not that much better than the norm

Reason I say that is because ever since that stat was posted I've observed him that much more closely. As time has gone on I've witnessed him doing an increasing amount of nudging, shirt-tugging and grabbing. I put that down in part to his steady decline in form but far more to the alarming deterioration in performance of those around him, meaning he is often that much more exposed than previously.
 
Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me but I always thought that Ledley King always tried to play in the right way rather than just do whatever you can to stop a player, I'm sure I read Thierry Henry said he was the only player who didn't just try to kick him. It's really a pointless debate as most people are prepared to see cheating and find any excuse to back up their view. As the same people like to buy into sport is a business crap it must be ok for companies to cheat customers and investors and employees cheat their employers, it's just business.
 
It’s strange as now I actually give it some thought the definition of cheating for me, in football especially, is conflicted.
Performance enhancing drugs, income outside the parameters of FFP (lol) purposely losing a match = cheating.
Fouling someone, intentionally whilst about to score - this is fine as the rules cover it with a red card and pen / free kick.
Ditto a handball on the line, Suarez did it once in an international comp and the opponent missed the resulting pen.
Diving however, is cheating even though it can be covered if spotted in the rules.
So by my own flawed logic if I foul someone and it’s not spotted by the ref that’s cheating?!
Appealing for a throw that isn’t yours and stealing yards seem to be acceptable...it’s starting to feel like brass eye good and bad AIDs...
 
For me if you win a Tour de France using drugs or you dive in the 90th minute For a penalty to win a World Cup The end result is the same.
 
You can lose the Tour titles, but not the world cup.

On the above examples, a deliberate handball to stop a goal has to be considered cheating. It is breaking the rules to gain an advantage. Not all fouls are cheating; it's about intent. A mistimed tackle is not cheating, but one intended to take a player out is. Those little grabs or nudges in midfield to stop a fast break are cheating, while an accidental leg-breaker is not.
 
I think there are levels, if you handle the ball, yes it's against the laws, but it's in the game, there is a law there for what the ref should do when it happens, an intentional handball is made with the calculation of the sanction that will follow.

For me that is very different to using performance enhancing drugs or bribing officials/opposition.
 
It's a different class of cheating, but I can't see any argument that deliberately breaking the rules of the game to gain an advantage isn't cheating. Surely that is the very definition of cheating.

If a player deliberately kicks someone to break their leg they don't get any exemption from criticism because of the rules of game provide a sanction. Thuggery is thuggery.
 
But it’s cheating in plain sight, it’s open cheating, admitted cheating, you are not trying to get away with something, you are gaming the rules for a perceived advantage.

I’m happy with that I think.
 
That Suarez World Cup handball is a great example, he’s a horrible piece of work, absolute scum, but that handball was the smart play.
 
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