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scara
Then you clearly haven't bothered reading it very well.
The 'accusations (read facts)' are:
1. Johnson missed 5 cobra meetings.
2. Emergency stockpiles of PPE had dwindled and were out of date (I’ve seen this multiple times, with us being sent masks which expired in 2016 and with a fresh sticker put on top by the Government).
3. No training to prepare key workers for pandemics, in part due to our preparation for an 'Oven ready Brexit’.
4. Little effort to acquire PPE, ventilators even once the scale of the crisis had started to become apparent.
5. Even if you've decided to convince yourself that Ferguson is a quack who doesn't know what he's doing, he is not some stand alone individual as you seem keen to try to portray. The article listed at least 3 other teams, from 3 other institutions, who did their own modelling and estimates and came to similar conclusions, many of them before him too. He is not out of line with what other scientists were saying.
6. We were one of the 1st countries to develop a test for the virus and yet didn’t bother scaling up production at all. Despite our abundance of private labs and our frankly huge amount of specifically level 4 biosecurity labs to help process it (for reference, we have 9, the USA have 13, China have 1-2, Germany have 4, France 2, Australia 3, Canada 1).
7. The head of the British in vitro diagnostics association, making up most of the UK testing sector, was not approached for help from the UK government until 1st April- the night before the Govt stated their aim of 100k tests a day.
8. I’ve already mentioned the 2016 pandemic planning and lack of action from that. You've got your head stuck in the sand about that one though so we'll move on.
9. What pandemic plans we did have were not implemented in February anyway.
10. NHSE declared this its first level 4 critical incident, yet there was a failure to replenish PPE from that point.
11. The British Healthcare Trades Association (BHTA) was ready to help supply PPE in February — and throughout March — but it was only on April 1 that its offer of help was accepted. Dr Simon Festing, the organisation’s chief executive, said: “Orders undoubtedly went overseas instead of to the NHS because of the missed opportunities in the procurement process.”
12. The UK government's own analysis does not agree with you that this is a very low risk, reasonably low outcome risk:
I was going to list them individually but pretty much all of those points are covered by my point 2.
Evidently the government didn't believe the cost to be particularly high either as they didn't do anything.
Regarding Ferguson; he's not a quack, he just appears to have a habit of getting somewhat hyperbolic in his predictions. That's the logical end result of teams of epidemiologists who only work with other epidemiologists - same in all fields. If you look at the video I posted yesterday, there's a valid argument that you don't kill an economy over untested theory.
I was going to list them individually but pretty much all of those points are covered by my point 2.
Evidently the government didn't believe the cost to be particularly high either as they didn't do anything.
Regarding Ferguson; he's not a quack, he just appears to have a habit of getting somewhat hyperbolic in his predictions. That's the logical end result of teams of epidemiologists who only work with other epidemiologists - same in all fields. If you look at the video I posted yesterday, there's a valid argument that you don't kill an economy over untested theory.
Evidently, the government were wrong. As are you. It's ok to admit that. Better men than you and Boris have managed it. Try it. It feels good.
They are of course not all covered by point two. Even if you're going to be so hard headed as to refuse to believe that part of a government's responsibility is to plan for events like war, pandemic, natural disasters etc well in advance, we have February and March to perhaps realise that this was something. Two months in which we did little to properly prepare. I'm not talking years in the past.
Not only that but I'm guessing that perhaps by 23rd March, when we went into nationwide lockdown, the government had perhaps decided that the cost might be a little high. Would you agree? And yet did not decide to test our nation's considerable capacity in testing and production of protective equipment until 8 days later.
Again, putting aside your weird thing with Ferguson, it wasn't just him saying this, either in the UK or indeed worldwide. That was kind of my point. I'm sure that you don't actually think epidemiologists only work with other epidemiologists , you're far too intelligent for that.
I am a bit sceptical about the "we followed scientific advice" line. I mean of course they did take advice, but I wonder how much of that advice was 'nudged' in a certain direction? The CMO and CSO are civil service appointments. So whilst independent from government (i.e. not actual government appointments?), they still work hand-in-hand with the government of the day. It just seems strange to me that when our government was talking about taking it on the chin, letting it roll through the community, herd immunity etc., so much commentary from other scientists, and the WHO, was totally against that course of action. Would our government scientific and medical advisors really be so out of kilter with their peers?
I wonder if it was more a case of the government insisting the economic impact be viewed as a priority, rather than curtailing the spread until the NHS could cope, and the advisors then framed their advice to meet that priority. By the time that outlook changed, we were already well on the back foot.
Of course it will be more nuanced than that, (and for some, putting the economy first will be seen as the right approach) but regardless of the right v wrong response, for the government to keep saying we followed the scientific advice makes it sound very much like a "we were just following orders" get-out and not acknowledging or taking responsibility for their own decision making.
Your thoughts on it are pretty much my thoughts on it, did they pressure the scientists into a certain way of thinking. But maybe trying to protect the economy is a good thing.
I do think they showed a lack of imagination in this but also feel this will now dictate policy on these sort of things for decades.
I might be the only one to think this but i see pandemics becoming more common. Any rogue country has seen what has happened and will think easiest way to attack the west is biological not through armed war.
Indeed. I can’t help wondering why British science was giving such different advice to Chinese science. To South Korean science. To German science. To Austrian science. To Danish science. To Czech science. To Irish science...
I also struggle to understand why a group of people (primarily the Prime Minister, Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings) who spent two years telling us they and the public had “had enough of experts” then chose to place such unquestioning faith in...experts.
Evidently, the government were wrong. As are you. It's ok to admit that. Better men than you and Boris have managed it. Try it. It feels good.
They are of course not all covered by point two. Even if you're going to be so hard headed as to refuse to believe that part of a government's responsibility is to plan for events like war, pandemic, natural disasters etc well in advance, we have February and March to perhaps realise that this was something. Two months in which we did little to properly prepare. I'm not talking years in the past.
Not only that but I'm guessing that perhaps by 23rd March, when we went into nationwide lockdown, the government had perhaps decided that the cost might be a little high. Would you agree? And yet did not decide to test our nation's considerable capacity in testing and production of protective equipment until 8 days later.
Again, putting aside your weird thing with Ferguson, it wasn't just him saying this, either in the UK or indeed worldwide. That was kind of my point. I'm sure that you don't actually think epidemiologists only work with other epidemiologists , you're far too intelligent for that.
It’s not worth your time, mate. Those on here still defending the government’s response aren’t doing it based on evidence - that ship has sailed, and it’s getting further from the shore every day.
It’s all about an ideological position for some - money trumps human life.
UK Education Secretary Gavin Williamson has said that "no decision" has been made as to when schools might reopen.
The minister tweeted on Sunday morning: "I can reassure schools and parents that they will only reopen when the scientific advice indicates it is the right time to do so."
Schools across the UK were closed last month to all pupils except the children of key workers, such as doctors, nurses and delivery drivers, some vulnerable children and those with more serious special educational needs.
I think the one think this government can’t be accused of is the lack of backing business.
A lot of companies namely high street shops are apparently using the furlough scheme to pay staff with no real intention of reopening when this dies off.
Anytime someone has said “what about us” they have provided. One legged street burger vendors called bob could ask for a bail out, start a stupid petition and get bailed out by the government.
From that aspect they have done well, my team at work who are not worrying about their bills and salaries are testimony to that
I don’t think we are anywhere near a final evaluation as to what would have been the best response.
We have not seen the end of this crisis nor will we until it either disappears, mutates into something less deadly, or it is fended off via herd immunity/vaccination programmes.
Anti pandemic measures ad infinitum are intolerable.
Personally I think this has years and years to run. It might even be possible that heavy initial exposure may turn out to be favourable in mitigating catastrophic waves of infection to come.
It’s not worth your time, mate. Those on here still defending the government’s response aren’t doing it based on evidence - that ship has sailed, and it’s getting further from the shore every day.
It’s all about an ideological position for some - money trumps human life.
The thing is and i think it is the difficult issue at the heart of the problems but if you shut the economy down it is going to effect lives, people will lose lives through other medical treatment being stopped.
Everything we were told was about the timing of it so the NHS was saved, which seems to have happened. I do believe the government have made mistakes and you would have thought they would be ordering more PPI in February.
If we have ministers who had done proper work in proper industries we might have got that.
I do take offence when i have seen people and reporters from other countries taking glee with our death figures then saying we should expect the rest of the world to hate us because of an empire that ended 80 years ago. While always taking the opportunity to tell us how racist we all are.
Evidently, the government were wrong. As are you. It's ok to admit that. Better men than you and Boris have managed it. Try it. It feels good.
They are of course not all covered by point two. Even if you're going to be so hard headed as to refuse to believe that part of a government's responsibility is to plan for events like war, pandemic, natural disasters etc well in advance, we have February and March to perhaps realise that this was something. Two months in which we did little to properly prepare. I'm not talking years in the past.
Not only that but I'm guessing that perhaps by 23rd March, when we went into nationwide lockdown, the government had perhaps decided that the cost might be a little high. Would you agree? And yet did not decide to test our nation's considerable capacity in testing and production of protective equipment until 8 days later.
Again, putting aside your weird thing with Ferguson, it wasn't just him saying this, either in the UK or indeed worldwide. That was kind of my point. I'm sure that you don't actually think epidemiologists only work with other epidemiologists , you're far too intelligent for that.
I think the government were wrong, but not in the way you do.
I think they were wrong to tank the economy to marginally lengthen the lives of a few who probably aren't contributing much anyway. They were wrong to saddle our children and grandchildren with lifetimes of debt and hardship on the basis of an untested theory in an unpublished paper.
It’s not worth your time, mate. Those on here still defending the government’s response aren’t doing it based on evidence - that ship has sailed, and it’s getting further from the shore every day.
It’s all about an ideological position for some - money trumps human life.
We'll be at a crossroads on the other end of this. I sincerely hope we don't allow the noisy voices of the economically illiterate to force us into socialism again:
So the poster who likened Scara to Stalin may have had a point. Which is worse, killing thousands due to incompetence and a lack of preparation, or intentionally killing thousands because you don’t care about the weak and vulnerable?
We'll be at a crossroads on the other end of this. I sincerely hope we don't allow the noisy voices of the economically illiterate to force us into socialism again:
So the poster who likened Scara to Stalin may have had a point. Which is worse, killing thousands due to incompetence and a lack of preparation, or intentionally killing thousands because you don’t care about the weak and vulnerable?
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