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Coronavirus

Rorschach said:
This is a superb article, albeit a bit long, charting the course of the pandemic to date and the botched US response to it.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-president-coronavirus-plague-982150/
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A great read and really damning for the orange one. It will be a long seven months until the election, with him doing and saying whatever he can to deflect responsibility and blame everyone else for his failures. This is shaping up to be the dirtiest election campaign in US history.
 
Robbo said:
A great read and really damning for the orange one. It will be a long seven months until the election, with him doing and saying whatever he can to deflect responsibility and blame everyone else for his failures. This is shaping up to be the dirtiest election campaign in US history.
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Maddening he is still going to win though.
 
Mikey10 said:
The letter was one tiny element of the piece - but do focus on that (which is still relevant) and avoid the twenty other awkward truths which the article contains for the government.

Anyway, I feel a bit like @Hootnow on this now, and am done posting on it. If people can’t see what’s going on then they are either Daily Mail reading numpties or have made the decision to ignore the evidence.

I’ll look forward to posting in the football forums once it starts up again - probably around January 2027. :D
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I read it and there's plenty that doesn't read well.

Two things I would say. (And this is in no way supportive of the government just observation)

1.We have one blunt instrument to tackle this so far. Even that is not guaranteed to of beeen the right thing to do when we look back in 3 years. It feels like it is now....but we just don't know. (PPE is a bit of a sh.itter granted)

2. The piece is Guardian citation heavy. It's like writing a piece on the ins and outs of West Ham and GG being the main source of citation.
It will read as a factual piece but the surrounding words and tone will have the bias inbuilt.
 
Mikey10 said:
@Hootnow on this now, and am done posting on it. If people can’t see what’s going on then they are either Daily Mail reading numpties or have made the decision to ignore the evidence.
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If you watch the news in the late evening they have a segment where they preview the next days papers and the headlines of the mail have actually matched my view. Government have not done great and have made a few mistakes.

The people reviewing them(nice to see in there living rooms) have highlighted articles further inside the mail and the times that have been very critical of the governments response.

Think the thing is though this crisis is on China. Our government being slow to react is not unusual and has been like that for 30 years.

Love her or hate her Maggie was the last prime minister to actually lead. Blair and Cameron were just media presenters modern day office managers who somehow got to be prime minister.

Really not liking keir starmer either not just for his EU views but he reminds me so much of blair and Cameron. Is why i liked Corbyn, he said this is who i am and if you dont like it you can fcuk off. Unfortunately the country told him to fcuk off.
 
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Rorschach said:
Why do you think that?
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Because and i have meet many lovely Americans but the are a load of stupid fcuking Americans and they are going to vote for him.

You and i may not agree on everything political and why should we have to.

But we both at least think about our views. The same can not be said for millions of Americans.

Would love to be proved wrong. But if he does not win he will end up in prison and i dont think the Republicans will let that happen.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I see America's response as truly botched. I few ours as a little slow and other European countries as a little quicker but panicked. The only reason I can see why America acting the way they have is because of the nutter in charge over there.
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It is dangerous to view the country as a whole. To be accurate it's best to go state by state, as responses have been wildly different. California -in particular the seven or so Bay Area counties- went shelter in place March 16th. The result has been an overwhelming "success" (whatever that really means but by the current standards an enormous improvement in rates and whatnot over the rest of the country).
Govenor Newsom has already spoken of CA as a"nation state" which is interesting.

It is great to see some like Newsom understood early that taking their lead from the buffoon would've been fatal.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
The wife is Irish, her lovely family are all Irish.

I have agreed we were slow to act but that is as much on the government advisers then the government actually more so. Because governments need to take advice from their advisors.

We can not yet say that it is completely wrong because if the is not a widespread vaccine for a year maybe herd immunity is best after all.

I dont know if that lady on Twitter is a reporter as i refuse to sign up to that awful thing. But i agree holding Cheltenham while seeing what was going on in Italy seemed very odd.

But the whole tone of what she wrote had the smell of the usual anti English sentiment you so often see from so many around the world.

As i have said London and New York two cities hardest hit are the two most open in the world. The has to be a trade off between the lives lost in the pandemic and the lives lost because of the recession.
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I think we can say even now that herd immunity was the wrong choice, even not knowing the final outcome. The UK government's change of direction is a tacit admission of this fact. You are trying to defend the government's choice, or at least minimise their culpability, as they based their decision on advice from experts. Let's assume that there was more than one expert in the room and one was arguing herd and the other immediate lockdown. They chose wrong. Irrespective of any other argument, projected casualty numbers, ultimate outcome, whatever, they took a gamble that the infected would develop immunity but they didn't know if that was the case and still don't.

The lady on twitter is an academic. Northern Irish maybe as her bio says she studied in Queens and Cambridge. If you read the thread (not sure you did) then taking it as an anti-English rant (which it is not) is missing the fundamental points she is making, which is a shame.

I agree that there is a tradeoff to be made between the harsh economic impact, of which we have only had a taste of so far, and the number of lives lost but that is not a decision to be made at the sharp end of a pandemic when so little is know IMO. This thing is only ramping up really. In less developed countries then this decision would need to be made far sooner but the UK is still able to take a few body blows economically. The herd immunity is an approach which puts the economic outcome front and centre, whereas more left learning governments have out health outcomes for people first. That's the way it appears to me anyway. Also, it seems to me that all the best responses have been from countries led by women(just an observation)
 
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Danishfurniturelover said:
Because and i have meet many lovely Americans but the are a load of stupid fcuking Americans and they are going to vote for him.

You and i may not agree on everything political and why should we have to.

But we both at least think about our views. The same can not be said for millions of Americans.

Would love to be proved wrong. But if he does not win he will end up in prison and i dont think the Republicans will let that happen.
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I think he will loose myself. 70k votes in the right states swung the last election. That's all it took.

At the moment he has not a lot to campaign on - economy destroyed, record unemployment, medical armageddon at the same time he's trying to brick can the ACA, disastrous trade wars, a geopolitical clusterfudge everywhere he's stuck his nose in. This list is almost endless. All he really has is the racism card, which is a vote-getter to be fair. And I think if the virus is still lingering come election time then postal voting will defeat him anyway.

I think we need a new thread to discuss rebuilding the world once this year is over.
 
thfcsteff said:
It is dangerous to view the country as a whole. To be accurate it's best to go state by state, as responses have been wildly different. California -in particular the seven or so Bay Area counties- went shelter in place March 16th. The result has been an overwhelming "success" (whatever that really means but by the current standards an enormous improvement in rates and whatnot over the rest of the country).
Govenor Newsom has already spoken of CA as a"nation state" which is interesting.

It is great to see some like Newsom understood early that taking their lead from the buffoon would've been fatal.
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Seceding from the union?

Jay Inslee has been good too in a difficult situation ( a proper eco guy too - I like him). As has Cuomo.
 
thfcsteff said:
It is dangerous to view the country as a whole. To be accurate it's best to go state by state, as responses have been wildly different. California -in particular the seven or so Bay Area counties- went shelter in place March 16th. The result has been an overwhelming "success" (whatever that really means but by the current standards an enormous improvement in rates and whatnot over the rest of the country).
Govenor Newsom has already spoken of CA as a"nation state" which is interesting.

It is great to see some like Newsom understood early that taking their lead from the buffoon would've been fatal.
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1249777564563804160
 
I have said it before and I will say it again, the bar is always set lower for Tory governments. For some weird reason, the public does not expect as much of them as they do for Labour and they are much, much more forgiving of their mistakes. it has always been thus.
 
thfcsteff said:
It is dangerous to view the country as a whole. To be accurate it's best to go state by state, as responses have been wildly different. California -in particular the seven or so Bay Area counties- went shelter in place March 16th. The result has been an overwhelming "success" (whatever that really means but by the current standards an enormous improvement in rates and whatnot over the rest of the country).
Govenor Newsom has already spoken of CA as a"nation state" which is interesting.

It is great to see some like Newsom understood early that taking their lead from the buffoon would've been fatal.
Click to expand...

That is fair enough.
 
Rorschach said:
I think we can say even now that herd immunity was the wrong choice, even not knowing the final outcome. The UK government's change of direction is a tacit admission of this fact. You are trying to defend the government's choice, or at least minimise their culpability, as they based their decision on advice from experts. Let's assume that there was more than one expert in the room and one was arguing herd and the other immediate lockdown. They chose wrong. Irrespective of any other argument, projected casualty numbers, ultimate outcome, whatever, they took a gamble that the infected would develop immunity but they didn't know if that was the case and still don't.

The lady on twitter is an academic. Northern Irish maybe as her bio says she studied in Queens and Cambridge. If you read the thread (not sure you did) then taking it as an anti-English rant (which it is not) is missing the fundamental points she is making, which is a shame.

I agree that there is a tradeoff to be made between the harsh economic impact, of which we have only had a taste of so far, and the number of lives lost but that is not a decision to be made at the sharp end of a pandemic when so little is know IMO. This thing is only ramping up really. In less developed countries then this decision would need to be made far sooner but the UK is still able to take a few body blows economically. The herd immunity is an approach which puts the economic outcome front and centre, whereas more left learning governments have out health outcomes for people first. That's the way it appears to me anyway. Also, it seems to me that all the best responses have been from countries led by women(just an observation)
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I read the thread all the way through. Had the usual anti English sentiment those sort always do.

I agree herd immunity has not worked because of how many would die. But if you want a league table type argument of which is the best way out of the crisis then surely you wait till the final whistle (the vaccine) surely smaller economies like Ireland will just rely on a bailout from either the EU or more likely the British taxpayer again like in 2008.

Where as a bigger economy like us we are on our own, always have been always will be.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
The wife is Irish, her lovely family are all Irish.

I have agreed we were slow to act but that is as much on the government advisers then the government actually more so. Because governments need to take advice from their advisors.

We can not yet say that it is completely wrong because if the is not a widespread vaccine for a year maybe herd immunity is best after all.

I dont know if that lady on Twitter is a reporter as i refuse to sign up to that awful thing. But i agree holding Cheltenham while seeing what was going on in Italy seemed very odd.

But the whole tone of what she wrote had the smell of the usual anti English sentiment you so often see from so many around the world.

As i have said London and New York two cities hardest hit are the two most open in the world. The has to be a trade off between the lives lost in the pandemic and the lives lost because of the recession.
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As I said to my friends who shared that with me she really isn’t comparing apples with apples unfortunately

London is bigger as city population wise than Ireland by 100% minimum...

Population and mucemg have the biggest say in this virus along with how you test/treat/manage it

It’s like comparing Tottenham and Leyton Orient
 
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