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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Watched his whole press conference today, interested to see what others made of it. A few things I noticed.

- he maintained that we played well vs bayern, despite a couple of 10 minute periods where we conceded goals....but then at the end of the press conference he referenced how 'brick' we played in the second half! It's obvious what he's saying to the press and behind closed doors are 2 different things. Makes me think his comments about the Leicester game and how well we played could be taken with a pinch of salt.
- he didnt appear to me to be about to walk away. Seemed a little tetchy, but I think thats to be expected given the result and answering 25 minutes of questions about Tuesday.
- One thing he said was about how the new players that have come in (he mentioned lo celso and sessegnon) have been injured and so not able to 'inject energy' in to the squad. Get the feeling he sees the team this season with these guys in and others out. Maybe another reference to not being able to get rid of players who are running down contracts/not wanted.
- It got me thinking about comments on here about him losing the players/dressing room but i think back to the games this season and i don't see a team that isn't trying/playing for the manager. For me the problems are purely from the system and the clientele in said system. It's just not working for a number of reasons. Is the diamond just a way to freshen up the playing style and move away from 5 years of the same thing?

Tomorrow is a massive game for him! It seems obvious to everyone that the system needs to change and i really hope tuesday is a wake up call.

Still believe Poch can turn it around! COYS
 
glasgowspur said:
Just as a topic of conversation, how would you rank poch getting us to a CL and top having not signed a player in 18 months to Jose at Porto winning the CL?
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The not signing players thing is a much bigger issue for others than it is me. Less than ideal, of course, but it's hardly like our squad was terrible.

Poch, CL final and top 4, given the injuries we had (far more valid issue imo) was a magnificent achievement. Though we really didn't play especially well for the most part. Scraping through the rounds and into top 4.

Mourinho walked his domestic league, to be expected really, but to win the CL is something else. Not only win it, but win it well playing good football - it was a triumph of coaching.

I think Porto winning that year is like someone like Celtic winning it. Or Greece at the euros.

In terms of achievement I'd rank Mourinhos higher.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
The not signing players thing is a much bigger issue for others than it is me. Less than ideal, of course, but it's hardly like our squad was terrible.

Poch, CL final and top 4, given the injuries we had (far more valid issue imo) was a magnificent achievement. Though we really didn't play especially well for the most part. Scraping through the rounds and into top 4.

Mourinho walked his domestic league, to be expected really, but to win the CL is something else. Not only win it, but win it well playing good football - it was a triumph of coaching.

I think Porto winning that year is like someone like Celtic winning it. Or Greece at the euros.

In terms of achievement I'd rank Mourinhos higher.
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But also winning then CL from a minor country is doable if the league adapt fixtures to suit (I don’t know if they did) and you can buy all the talent within that country.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But also winning then CL from a minor country is doable if the league adapt fixtures to suit (I don’t know if they did) and you can buy all the talent within that country.
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I don’t think it’s fair to say Jose bought “all the talent within that country”, the players he signed for Porto went on to be great but none of them were signed for large fees or seen as a coup at the time, a few of them were picked up cheaply from his previous club Uniao Leira (sp?), signed on free contracts or, er, recalled from Charlton Athletic (a lower league English Club).

Similar can be said for his Inter team, most of them were there when he joined and Juve and Milan had outspent them massively over the previous 5 seasons.
 
nayenezgani said:
I'll typically back you to the hilt Steff, but how has Toby acted like a clam? He's been the ultimate professional for me... One of the few that hasn't let their performances suffer too much.
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Won't get into it here mate, but word on the street two years ago (strong word) was that he did not behave very well at a critical juncture...
 
glasgowspur said:
I know this for @nayim but if I was levy then if poch can look me in the eye and answer yes to do you want the chance to turn this around and will we come out of this stronger next season then I'd be happy to let him get on with it.
It's all down to does poch want too for me.
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Mate. You know I've said that steadfastly as well. It was a question specifically for Nayim.
 
Answers in bold within quote block...

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
If Im Levy? Two things.

1) Try and fix Poch, get his head in the game. Maybe set targets, maybe advise he sack off Eriksen its ok with me, maybe discuss what moves we can make in Jan - whatever. The problem is simple, its Poch, so how do we help him get back to his best?

2) Start looking into my little black book for a replacement, just in case. Maybe sound out Mourinho, Allegri...


What do you think there are doing? Playing tiddlywinks? Good GHod, sometimes it beggars belief...




Yes, I saw your list of excuses as to why Poch doesnt need to manage any more.

What a Trumpian response. Creating a specific narrative. Again, did you see my list? One person's mitigating factors is another person's "excuse not to manage" I see. Look, I appreciate that you like to throttle your debate opponent to death by a thousand cuts and diversions, but I'm not having it here.



Obviously I dont see it the same way you do.

Evidently.

Eriksen is a wonderful example. Eriksen wants to leave, acts like a clam, upsets the manager and general squad vibes, do you:

Scenario A) Keep him in the squad, on the bench, and coming onto games. See that he is playing like turd so play Lamela. Lamela does well, so immediately drop him for Eriksen. Wonder why the good vibes havent returned?

Of course, your other scenario is that Lamela cannot fudging play all the fudging time and needs to be protected so as he doesn't break down again as he has every other season!!!!!!! You have a squad, you use it as best you can regardless of clams or no clams. Did you ever consider it might be FOR Lamela as much as not? Because trust me, if Poch plays Lamela three games in a row and he breaks down, the knives will come flying out.


Scenario B) Tell Eriksen his times up, kick him out. Let him go back to Ajax to train for fitness. Now the rotten apple is out of the barrell, focus on the players you have that are committed and want to play. Work up a system that suits them. Make Progress?

And have various senior players grumble? Let me ask you a question; has it crossed your mind that already there might be a couple of others pushing the "ago" button? Does he ship them all out to Ajax to train>? Or Milton Keynes? Or wherever? Besides, when you don't HAVE the player you signed to make that switch fit (we're back to that "excuse" list again) then it is pretty fudging hard to do it. Of course, he DID do it against Bayern, and for 35 minutes it was great (albeit you and a couple of others didn't agree) and he has tried a few times this season. For you to simply accuse him of not managing is frankly ludicrous and an insult to him.


You see how the issue is management, and not players?

Oh yes, I see it very, very clearly, and I think you have pot-boiled managing Tottenham Hotspur down to the equivalence of managing a petrol station. I agree with all who say they think the diamond should be ditched, but I will add that IF Poch has not earned the respect of us enough to ponder that there might -just might- be a mitigating factor or two behind why he is doing it, then we are in a sad place as a fan base.



Fergie built a successful team, then introduced exciting coaches while maintaining his heir of authority.

Poch, it seems, has stomped off in a huff.

The analogy only bears partial parity. Fergie was 45 when he took over Man U, having won a European trophy with Aberdeen and managed Scotland during a World Cup Finals. It took him four seasons to win the FA Cup. It took him seven to win the title.You could argue that Poch has been as successful in 6, having lost two finals, one of which was the biggest club final in world football, as well as helping us enter the 21st century and re-establish as major force in world club football.

I hope he want to be with us, because if he does, in MY opinion, we need to give him everything he wants. Everything. Because I believe he will bring us silverware if we do.

I think you raise an interesting point re: assts, and have noted that he himself says they need to refresh aspects of training.

More than anything, I hope he hunkers down and gives no-one -the media, his critics in our fanbase, no-one- the chance to take swings at him.
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galeforce said:
I don’t think it’s fair to say Jose bought “all the talent within that country”, the players he signed for Porto went on to be great but none of them were signed for large fees or seen as a coup at the time, a few of them were picked up cheaply from his previous club Uniao Leira (sp?), signed on free contracts or, er, recalled from Charlton Athletic (a lower league English Club).

Similar can be said for his Inter team, most of them were there when he joined and Juve and Milan had outspent them massively over the previous 5 seasons.
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Didn’t he have pretty much the Portugal national side excluding Ronaldo?
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Because he has kept them around. Eriksen, Vertonghen and Alderweireld are all leaving for free, there is nothing to be gained from keeping them in the team, we could push them out.

Rose and Wanyama were barely bringing £10m each, they basically count as the rest.
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NO!!!!! He did NOT "keep them around"...Toby priced himself out of a move with his wage demands. Eriksen would not be sold to anyone he did not want to go to and would not sign a contract extension, christ, there were MANY efforts made. Did you know, for example, that (reportedly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) AM came in for him BEFORE Tripper, but he didn't want to go there? WTF can Pochettino do about that? What can he do about Alderweirteld thinking he can get one hundred and eighty grand a week and holding out for it? Rose was close to being sold several times, as for Wanyama, you saw what happened. HOW are these the manager's fault? Please. Explain.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
But all of this stuff - he’s sulking, he’s not taking the obvious decision to bomb influential players out, we don’t know that any of this is actually true or the right thing to think or do. He has earned our trust and he does have a plan - we should improve as the season goes on.
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This.

I am going to have to ban myself from here for a while soon.
I am getting so fudging tired of the negativity.

I want to see this place in May if he does (as I believe he will) turnout around.
 
thfcsteff said:
NO!!!!! He did NOT "keep them around"...Toby priced himself out of a move with his wage demands. Eriksen would not be sold to anyone he did not want to go to and would not sign a contract extension, christ, there were MANY efforts made. Did you know, for example, that (reportedly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) AM came in for him BEFORE Tripper, but he didn't want to go there? WTF can Pochettino do about that? What can he do about Alderweirteld thinking he can get one hundred and eighty grand a week and holding out for it? Rose was close to being sold several times, as for Wanyama, you saw what happened. HOW are these the manager's fault? Please. Explain.
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Not sure anyone can do anything about it
I’ve heard Levy blamed too as he wouldn’t sell them cheap enough... like we have to sell them cheap now
 
thfcsteff said:
NO!!!!! He did NOT "keep them around"...Toby priced himself out of a move with his wage demands. Eriksen would not be sold to anyone he did not want to go to and would not sign a contract extension, christ, there were MANY efforts made. Did you know, for example, that (reportedly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) AM came in for him BEFORE Tripper, but he didn't want to go there? WTF can Pochettino do about that? What can he do about Alderweirteld thinking he can get one hundred and eighty grand a week and holding out for it? Rose was close to being sold several times, as for Wanyama, you saw what happened. HOW are these the manager's fault? Please. Explain.
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Well in all honesty none of that is the managers fault, want stop some from saying/suggesting that though. You would think that after all Poch has done for us so far they would cut him some slack. Fickle fans who at the firsts sign of us slipping the knives come out.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
The not signing players thing is a much bigger issue for others than it is me. Less than ideal, of course, but it's hardly like our squad was terrible.

Poch, CL final and top 4, given the injuries we had (far more valid issue imo) was a magnificent achievement. Though we really didn't play especially well for the most part. Scraping through the rounds and into top 4.

Mourinho walked his domestic league, to be expected really, but to win the CL is something else. Not only win it, but win it well playing good football - it was a triumph of coaching.

I think Porto winning that year is like someone like Celtic winning it. Or Greece at the euros.

In terms of achievement I'd rank Mourinhos higher.
Click to expand...

I didn't see any of Porto in the CL so can't comment on the quality.
Funny you mention Celtic, the team they beat in the eufa final, I didn't watch that either but all my Celtic supporting mates hate Jose because of the cynical way he played that game.
 
People are entitled to question the manager if they think he's getting it wrong i suppose but for me im happy to give him time and space to find the solutions himself without calling his every move in to question - he deserves the time to put things right more than any manager in my lifetime and id rather he learned how to deal with this situation here and improve as a result than to be moved on and to see another team benefit from him learning from these tough situations
 
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