Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Moby]

Surely Sam Beckett can save us?

Oh boy....

 

[milo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1108067096393596929

 

[DTA]

https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/dawnus-administrators-cite-brexit

 

[milo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1108129854472495105

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

All directions are bad from here.

Let's just revoke.

All the immediate problems drop away and many of the future ones no longer need tackling. We don't currently possess anyone capable to sail this ship anyway, and a modern day Lord Nelson doesn't look to exist.

Of course, the one big issue will be the non deliverance of 'what the people voted for'....will farage rise again? (With his 200 marchers) and would a current government (blue or red) be able to communicate effectively the reasons why to athe rational thinking public (I know that's not everyone).

This is so ripe for someone else to emerge.

 

[Parklaner81]

So with recent events having put the power in EU's hands possibly more than ever before, and with hints coming from various parties that an extension might not necessarily be granted, where are the calls for the EU to 'take a damaging no-deal brexit off the table'?

 

[SpurMeUp]

So with recent event's having put the power in EU's hands possibly more than ever before, and with hints coming from various parties that an extension might not necessarily be granted, where are the calls for the EU to 'take a damaging no-deal brexit off the table'?

There will be an extension. EU have been given no time by May to deal with this. Then you have to ask, why the extension and what’s the plan? Do you think the EU is being unreasonable? Or is the uk?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[SpurMeUp]

Why did we end up in this mess?
Because Brexit doesn’t have any substance, so asking a government to deliver it is a trick assignment. They can’t deliver because there is nothing good to give.

How did we end up in this mess? Mays inability to frame the question and communicate openly with the people and MPs. Instead she tried to please everyone rather than articulate her vision and why we need to get on board. But then if the vision delivers nothing positive it’s hard to promote (in which case change the vision!)

Parliament is protecting the UK from a bad deal. They are doing their job. But is there a ‘good deal’ does it exist?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Parklaner81]

There will be an extension. EU have been given no time by May to deal with this. Then you have to ask, why the extension and what’s the plan? Do you think the EU is being unreasonable? Or is the uk?

I agree there will be an extension for sure, but it seems to me that certain parties within the EU are milking the power they have to suggest that, possibly, there might not be. This equates to hinting at no deal. When May did this she faced constant howls from remainers, Labour, the SNP and some within her own party which served only to undermine her position in negotiations. Given that the situation now seems broadly equivalent but the 'other way around', it's seem odd to me that those same people aren't now directing that same antagonism at the EU. Unless of course they had other motives.

 

[Baleforce]

So with recent event's having put the power in EU's hands possibly more than ever before, and with hints coming from various parties that an extension might not necessarily be granted, where are the calls for the EU to 'take a damaging no-deal brexit off the table'?

They agreed a WA with us months ago in good faith that the PM could get it through parliament, they have also said we can revoke a50 (which was initiated without any planning by us whatsoever by the way) at any time.

This brickshow is totally our own fault.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I agree there will be an extension for sure, but it seems to me that certain parties within the EU are milking the power they have to suggest that, possibly, there might not be. This equates to hinting at no deal. When May did this she faced constant howls from remainers, Labour, the SNP and some within her own party which served only to undermine her position in negotiations. Given that the situation now seems broadly equivalent but the 'other way around', it's seem odd to me that those same people aren't now directing that same antagonism at the EU.

The EU is quite different to the UK sovereign parliament. May wanted to leverage no deal in an infantile belief that we could pressure people (mainly our own mps), so she was criticised. It’s a pathetic tactic not suited to such a crucial decision and it was obvious what she was doing and therefore ineffective to boot.

The EU have 27 sovereign nations who need to be consulted about the extension. So it’s not a given. The EU don’t like all the uncertainty. They have elections. How does the uk stay in while mep elections take place? Do we vote or not? And this mess is the uks, not the eus, yet you’re looking to them to solve it by putting us before them?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Parklaner81]

They agreed a WA with us months ago in good faith that the PM could get it through parliament, they have also said we can revoke a50 (which was initiated without any planning by us whatsoever by the way) at any time.

This brickshow is totally our own fault.

So a no deal brought about by the UK would be crashing out, armageddon, disaster etc etc., but the very same event as brought about by the EU would be entirely reasonable?

 

[SpurMeUp]

So a no deal bought about by the UK would be crashing out, armageddon, disaster etc etc., but the very same event as bought about by the EU would be entirely reasonable?

This whole brexit debacle is based on blaming the EU for our uk issues. Local uk disenfranchisement, frustrations etc and pinning it (unjustly) on the Eu. What you’re doing now is exactly the same. Trying to blame the Eu for the UKs issues.

Hand it to you for consistency [emoji106]


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Baleforce]

So a no deal bought about by the UK would be crashing out, armageddon, disaster etc etc., but the very same event as bought about by the EU would be entirely reasonable?

It’s been brought about by us, we have two buttons to push which pull us out of it, how can you blame
the EU for us sitting on our hands in any way?

No deal has been the intentional target of the govt from day one, all of the posturing in parliament has been an effort to not get blamed for the inevitable disaster.

 

[Parklaner81]

The EU is quite different to the UK sovereign parliament. May wanted to leverage no deal in an infantile belief that we could pressure people (mainly our own mps), so she was criticised. It’s a pathetic tactic not suited to such a crucial decision and it was obvious what she was doing and therefore ineffective to boot.

The EU have 27 sovereign nations who need to be consulted about the extension. So it’s not a given. The EU don’t like all the uncertainty. They have elections. How does the uk stay in while mep elections take place? Do we vote or not? And this mess is the uks, not the eus, yet you’re looking to them to solve it by putting us before them?

This whole brexit debacle is based on blaming the EU for our uk issues. Local uk disenfranchisement, frustrations etc and pinning it (unjustly) on the Eu. What you’re doing now is exactly the same. Trying to blame the Eu for the UKs issues.

Hand it to you for consistency [emoji106]

Well this is going to get very circular isn't it, seeing as my basic point is about a lack of consistency.

If those people who applied the pressure on May over no deal genuinely felt it represented an armageddon scenario, they should now be directing the same criticism at those within the EU who are hinting at it. Simple. But, of course, that isn't going to happen.

 

[Parklaner81]

It’s been bought about by us, we have two buttons to push which pull us out of it, how can you blame
the EU for us sitting on our hands in any way?

No deal has been the intentional target of the govt from day one, all of the posturing in parliament has been an effort to not get blamed for the inevitable disaster.

I'm not blaming the EU for anything. I'm calling out the blatant double standards of people who pressured and undermined the UK government over no deal, but wouldn't dream of saying boo to the EU over the very same outcome.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I'm not blaming the EU for anything. I'm calling out the blatant double standards of people who pressured and undermined the UK government over no deal, but wouldn't dream of saying boo to the EU over the very same outcome.

As outlined it’s slightly different as the EU aren’t trying to manipulate and leverage as May was.

From the article Milo posted:


“The anarchy at Westminster is the political expression of anarchy in the UK, the sundering of a common sense of belonging. Brexit is a fabulous form of displacement – it acknowledges a profound and genuine unhappiness about how the British are governed but deflects it on to Europe.

It has merely marked out in bright red ink the fault-lines that have long been less vividly present – the drifting apart of England and Scotland; the economic and cultural divide between what Anthony Barnett calls “England-without-London” and the rest of the UK (Wales being the obvious anomaly); the social and geographic rifts between the winners and losers of the long Thatcherite revolution. Brexit, in a worst-of-all-worlds moment, brings all of these divisions to a head while doing absolutely nothing to address them. It reveals a polity that cannot create consensus because it lacks a foundation in social consent.”




Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Parklaner81]

As outlined it’s slightly different as the EU aren’t trying to manipulate and leverage as May was.

Well that's a hugely debatable point, and one I'd suggest there's little point in getting into again. But either way it doesn't change the outcome. If no deal = armageddon, surely the EU should not be condoned for casually hinting at it when May got slaughtered for doing so.

 

[Baleforce]

I'm not blaming the EU for anything. I'm calling out the blatant double standards of people who pressured and undermined the UK government over no deal, but wouldn't dream of saying boo to the EU over the very same outcome.

how is it double standards, they have given us two ways out, what more can they do without destroying their entire system?

 

[Baleforce]

the only logical action is to revoke, which is what an honest and responsible govt would do, we don't have a deal we are happy with and we can't give the EU an accurate timeline of when we will be able to move forward which would justify an extension

it's no surprise parliament couldn't come to an agreement when the tory party itself can't