• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Sick sick world what is wrong with people

The mirror has also gone with a similar headline and picture and the two publications make up about 35-40% of daily readership of all papers in the UK. So a pretty worrying insight into how a lot of people may think.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Europe has been pushing people more and more in this way. Because of its intolerance of national governments the EU is going to push these sort of things to happen here, if you actually follow what goes on in the news in Poland and Hungry for example. The EU is actually making it worse by its dogmatic one size fits all approach to democracy.

If you love Europe and peace(as I do) you can not help but to be dismayed at what the politicians in the EU are fostering.
Click to expand...
I enjoy your posts immensely mate, but you are sorely mistaken if you believe fascism would be tempered by the removal of the EU. In fact imo quite the opposite, the EU is trying, to break down barriers so people can move and be treated equally across its area. It also provides a mechanism so that the governments can work together to tackle extremism. Fascism is bred by fear and hatred. That existed long before the EU and will continue should the EU fall.

Also this idea that the EU somehow suppresses a country's identity is nonsense. I have attended meetings with delegates from other member states and they are all fiercely proud of their nationalities.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I think Europe has moved towards peace after the second world war, because it was such a devastating war people wanted peace. The reasons behind the Nazis rise to power are not around today. They was not the communication back then for the outside world to know what the Nazis were doing, they were able to control the press in ways that you could not today.

We can see in eastern europe the is a growing and in my opinion worrying trend of going towards far right movements(not something I would ever want) is in part to the EU and its mass immigration has swelled these movements. You also have the EU becoming ever more over controlling in different countries and this produces a back lash.

The is a very real case for saying the EU has had a rise in right wing extremism and the rise in popularity in right wing governments.
Click to expand...
You do realise quite how recently fascist and other repressive regimes still existed in Europe right?
Germany
Hungary
Portugal
Spain
 
r-u-s-x said:
Hungary far right gained power in 2010,
Click to expand...
After 20 years of capitalism that created a split in feeling - the "this is a great opportunity to have better things" Vs "things were better under communism because it was more fair".

Add to that a generation born around the time of communism falling moving to different countries to broaden their horizons leaves an aging or more inward focused electorate.

Hmmm..... I had never really considered that.
Is the rise in facism an unfortunate byproduct of freedom of movement because it leaves many electorates made up of less outward looking people?
 
DubaiSpur said:
So, for the first part of your question, yes, absolutely. Farage and the new right - the type that uses unashamed dogwhistles for electoral purposes.

The type that puts up a bloody great billboard with 'Breaking Point and a picture of refugees on it, but goes 'not me guv'nor' when called out on it. The type that calls Muslims every name under the sun, shouts in support of a 'Muslim ban', angrily derides Sadiq Khan for letting Muslims into London somehow...and then turns around acts like they never said any of it, when called out on their rhetoric.

'Anyone to the right'? No, absolutely not. Farage, Tommy Robinson, UKIP, Trump, the GOP, AfD, Front National, Lega Nord and co.? Yes.

And the broader right-wing (from the Tories to the Christian Democrats) have never stopped to think if pandering to their newly divisive, increasingly bellicose ilk would result in days like today - at the very least, they need to stop and f*cking think, before more innocent people die. There was a Tory Party that once would have laughed people like Farage out of the building, to their credit. But, it seems, not anymore.

As for the second part, radical Islamist preachers did inspire the dingdongheads who drove vans into people in the streets. And I want them utterly fudged off to crack rocks and waste away somewhere as much as the rest of them. But it's harder to argue that a left-wing politician saying 'Muslims are okay' inspired a jihadi to commit violence. Whereas a Farage type saying 'Muslims are dangerous animals, wink wink, nudge nudge' might well have pushed a white nationalist spree killer over the line.

I see the same thing in Canada. The Conservative Party of old is dying, and the new right that is emerging is exactly the same - a wink, a dogwhistle and a nod to f*ckers like this, and then shock when they end up doing what they openly encouraged them to do. This is a global problem with the new right-wing, and it needs solving *now*.



Fully agreed. This was an intelligence failure, too - this f*ckwit was posting pictures to his Twitter for weeks before the massacre, and openly detailing his plans on 8chan. Nothing was done - somebody dropped the fudging ball.



I don't disagree - people need to come together, all of us. but why do you think this happened now? Why do you think it happened after the Finsbury Park attack, the Quebec City mosque attack, the American synagogue attack, the Charlottesville attack, the Charlottetown attack?

We are in a political environment where it's becoming increasingly normal to dehumanise minorities, dehumanize Muslims, paint them as threats, and flagellate them. We are in an environment where stupid nonsense like 'white genocide' and 'immigrants replacing whites' is actually growing in popularity. And before we come together, we need to understand that doing so is fudging *wrong* - more innocent people will die because of this horror we've created, by allowing the new right like Farage to poison our political discourse like this.


We are allowing ourselves to be led into a dangerous, racially-charged age by these demagogues. We need to stop.
Click to expand...
Not forgetting the home secretary playing to the right wing gallery, stripping citizenship from our own people. Shamina Begum, even if she was a criminal, was British and should' have been tried by a British Court. By rejecting her and allowing her child to die we just fuelled her extremism. Javid is every bit as bad as Farage for me.
 
Last edited:
Hootnow said:
The mirror has also gone with a similar headline and picture and the two publications make up about 35-40% of daily readership of all papers in the UK. So a pretty worrying insight into how a lot of people may think.
Click to expand...

I have not really seen the newspapers, what did they report and how was it wrong?
 
monkeybarry said:
You do realise quite how recently fascist and other repressive regimes still existed in Europe right?
Germany
Hungary
Portugal
Spain
Click to expand...

Yes I do. We also have it with the EU as well. It was meant to be a trading block, it has over stepped its reach and is a major factor way the is a rise in right wing views across the continent. It is a shame they can not be more lenient in their extreme views in Brussels. If they could have shown just a small amount of leeway then Europe would probably not be heading the way it is heading.

Take home message, it is all the EU faults(the rise of right wing views)
 
Robspur12 said:
Not forgetting the home secretary playing to the right wing gallery, stripping citizenship from our own people. Shamina Begum, even if she was a criminal, was British and should' have been tried by a British Court. By rejecting her and allowing her child to die we just fuelled her extremism. Javid is every bit as bad as Farage for me.
Click to expand...

So someone leaving a moderate country to support a far right ideology in a fight against the country she fled and your problem lies with javid?
As odious as farage is I've never yet seen openly incite violence, persecute gays, Jews, Christians, women , I could go here as I'm sure you are aware.

Citizenship is a right she forfeited. something offen overlooked in the scramble to protect the individuals rights is the rights of many and how many have her kind murdered? No doubt you will object to the use of 'her kind' .
 
glasgowspur said:
So someone leaving a moderate country to support a far right ideology in a fight against the country she fled and your problem lies with javid?
As odious as farage is I've never yet seen openly incite violence, persecute gays, Jews, Christians, women , I could go here as I'm sure you are aware.

Citizenship is a right she forfeited. something offen overlooked in the scramble to protect the individuals rights is the rights of many and how many have her kind murdered? No doubt you will object to the use of 'her kind' .
Click to expand...

She is c unt put her in prison. But she can't forfeit citizen rights, otherwise so can you... No? Why not?
 
DTA said:
She is c unt put her in prison. But she can't forfeit citizen rights, otherwise so can you... No? Why not?
Click to expand...

Agree, put her on trial for her crimes and put her in prison.

Another question is, what gives our country the right to dump this filth on another country? Syria didn't ask for any of them to go over there and she has no legit citizenship for any other country. Would we be happy if countries chose to revoke citizenship of their criminals when on our soil and told us to keep them? It's the opposite isn't it? When there are foreign criminals here, we don't want to keep them, we want to send them back to their country of origin.

She won't be the last either.
 
Rorschach said:
This is my fear too and it is going to get much worse in my opinion. Something that I learned recently is how interconnected the temperature is to incidents of violence, domestic and between nations. Within a few years our climate problem will conflate with the immigration problem, and this will feed the facism sentiment like nothing before. I don't want to pull this into a Brexit debate but on this issue, my firm belief is that Europe is better equipped to meet this challenge as a bloc rather than as individual nations.
Click to expand...

The David Wallace-Wells view? V interesting.

Ps @Rorschach

Don’t know if you read the book or heard it, but the guy has recently been on both the Rogan and Chris Hayes podcasts. Sobering stuff.
 
Last edited:
@the dza @DTA.
She chose to do what she has done, she knew what she was getting into, she has no regrets or shown any remorse.
Bringing her back here to server a prison sentence in safety and comfort is a total waste of resources. I would rather bring every one of the tens of thousands of refugees that she and her kind have created here than her. She chose to go that hell, and created it, let her rot there.

Citizenship is a two way street, you agree to live by the rules of the society that offers you it, she chose to not only leave that society but to actively support a fight against it.
We haven't stripped her of her citizenship as much as she has renounced it.

If it all goes pears and they know they can back here to relative safety and comfort no she won't be the last. there needs to be consequences.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Yes I do. We also have it with the EU as well. It was meant to be a trading block, it has over stepped its reach and is a major factor way the is a rise in right wing views across the continent. It is a shame they can not be more lenient in their extreme views in Brussels. If they could have shown just a small amount of leeway then Europe would probably not be heading the way it is heading.

Take home message, it is all the EU faults(the rise of right wing views)
Click to expand...
That's your take-home message. Mine is Happy Imported European get drunk day.
 
glasgowspur said:
@the dza @DTA.
She chose to do what she has done, she knew what she was getting into, she has no regrets or shown any remorse.
Bringing her back here to server a prison sentence in safety and comfort is a total waste of resources. I would rather bring every one of the tens of thousands of refugees that she and her kind have created here than her. She chose to go that hell, and created it, let her rot there.

Citizenship is a two way street, you agree to live by the rules of the society that offers you it, she chose to not only leave that society but to actively support a fight against it.
We haven't stripped her of her citizenship as much as she has renounced it.

If it all goes pears and they know they can back here to relative safety and comfort no she won't be the last. there needs to be consequences.
Click to expand...

Even if you agree with her citizenship being revoked, what gives the UK the right to dump her on someone else? As I said, none of these arseholes were invited in by the Syrian government and if she (or the many others) only have a British citizenship and not any other, where are they going to go? Syria will, quite rightly, not want them. Because if you are talking about 2-way streets, then I assume you will be ok with criminals from other countries having to stay here when their country of origin says "nope, not one of ours anymore."
 
the dza said:
Even if you agree with her citizenship being revoked, what gives the UK the right to dump her on someone else? As I said, none of these arseholes were invited in by the Syrian government and if she (or the many others) only have a British citizenship and not any other, where are they going to go? Syria will, quite rightly, not want them. Because if you are talking about 2-way streets, then I assume you will be ok with criminals from other countries having to stay here when their country of origin says "nope, not one of ours anymore."
Click to expand...

I'll take your second point first, if they commit the crime here then they are breaking our rules and it's correct that they are punished here. Don't see that as an issue and in all honesty is a distraction.
The Syrians/isis/caliphate let her into their country knowing full well why she was entering their country/state, so they are as responsible as anyone.
She made her bed, she must lie in it.
This is about laying down a marker, your actions have consequences. If we bring her back and she is tried and sentenced to 5 years in a UK jail, what's happens on release? She is reintegrated into society, possibly as a hero to some, possibly appearing on TV or publishing a book of her story.
Will she have any regrets, will she be seen as a recruitment figure, hey look at me, I stuck finger upto the West, fudge up my life and countless others, but look how great it worked out for me.
We need to show actions like these.havr the direst consequences.
 
the dza said:
Even if you agree with her citizenship being revoked, what gives the UK the right to dump her on someone else? As I said, none of these arseholes were invited in by the Syrian government and if she (or the many others) only have a British citizenship and not any other, where are they going to go? Syria will, quite rightly, not want them. Because if you are talking about 2-way streets, then I assume you will be ok with criminals from other countries having to stay here when their country of origin says "nope, not one of ours anymore."
Click to expand...
Isn't it down to the Syrian government to protect their own borders from those they don't want there?

Can't see how it's our responsibility.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back