Moussa Sissoko

[papaspur]

1:19 - that run there. Gets the ball, Eriksen shows he wants the pass, Sissoko ends up running past him and getting a foul. For me the ball to Eriksen and our play flowing up the field would have been preferable.

Maybe you prefer the free kick?

And on the subject of runs - we've all noticed Winks making more. IMO - he makes better ones. In that his decisions on both when to run, and what to do when he has, are generally better than Sissokos.

Just to comment on this specific action from the Leicester game... I thought the free-kick was preferable in that situation because it gave a chance for our team to get a breather, especially the defenders. Leicester were pushing hard at that point.
So, his runs and slaloms lately haven't always led to a goal and he does misplace a pass from time to time. Really, who has a 100% pass completion? Even 90% is fairly out-of-this-world, and I would suggest that Sissoko goes for some difficult passes, but it's obviously not his bread and butter. His assists/goals are very low but it wasn't far off from Dembele's stats from his stint here.

Mousa Dembele (aka Sissoko Mk. I)

 

[Robspur12]

Ok, Ill play along. These are the criticisms I can find over the last few pages:

It's not about comparative ability - most players in he world would fall short.
It's about style - Modric and Sissoko are at opposite ends of the scale.


Agreed, I was one of the original “haters” and I’m quite happy to admit that he surprises me every match how much he has improved over the course of this season.
I just don’t see the MOM, better than x,y,z player that some people do, in my eyes he is an athletic footballer just not a particularly skilful one.


I don't think anyone has claimed he hasn't improved - at least I haven't seen that in this thread. For me, the level of improvement is astonishing.
Problem is, he's come from such a low level that even such a huge improvement leaves him significantly behind the rest of the team in terms of talent. He's still at the very top of the list of players that need replacing and are easiest to replace in the summer, he's still at the bottom of our list of midfielders if everyone's fit (barring Skipp maybe on experience terms).


He still has his moments of looking like a pub player but I agree with this. And this time 6 months ago I was laughing at the fella thinking he was Ali Dia reincarnated. I love been this wrong about a player I'd written off.


For clarity and without prejudice, I think Sissoko has below average footballing skills and match awareness compared to his midfield peers in our current squad but I do think he has above average physical attributes that enable him to perform his current role. I also believe that his particular range of attributes and skills would be better showcased in a team that played to those strengths, maybe in a more counter attacking side rather than a team that like to patiently build up from the back.


On average, his performances must still rate as poor.
[All of them averaged together or the recent ones where, and brace yourself for this, he's been good (or not as disastrous)?]
All of them. He has a lot of ground to make up. Although he is getting there. I'd love to interview Sissoko - he is a bit of an enigma.


[fudging immense tonight. He sweeps up everywhere and just keeps us moving forward]
Then runs the length of the pitch and bricks the bed (meaning a pass that went straight to their defender).


[What would make you NOT come up with a critique of Sissoko?]
Him discovering some kind of vision, skill and understanding of the game that ends with him being a midfielder that doesn't look out of place in a team challenging for the title.


I thought Serge and Sissoko had very mixed games. A few good interventions/actions, but also some hopeless interplay where they went nowhere or just left the ball or passed to nobody. And the usual poor quality of touch and technique and pass selection. Hopefully we can upgrade these guys, they are trying hard and they DO contribute in some ways, but cannot reach the heights I would like to see at Spurs.


So, a single mention of him being one we could upgrade upon next season.

Not one stating the team cannot reach great heights with him in the side.

Mostly, really, just observing that while he is a great athlete, he isnt a great footballer. Most, specifically, make that in relation to the quality of our side.

It might surprise you to hear I am in agreement with that, but thats not really the point. The point is, agree or disagree, these are not unreasonable points.

The defence of him?

As much as you won't like to admit it... [starts response with personal shot]


It was clearly a pass. There is no way that he meant anything other than putting Son in on goal. There’s no way he was just clearing into an area.
See how ridiculous it is to talk in absolutes here? Neither you or I can know Sissoko’s intentions with that ball. However the previous opinion that you (and Scara) have formed, religiously stuck to and now probably feel a little foolish in continuing to do, lead you into ridiculous statements like yours above. [More personal shots]


Quite sad to see some fans not able or willing to appreciate what Sissoko brings to the team, but I don't know, maybe he fudged their wives or something to that effect which wouldn't endear me to him either. It's all about perspective though; Joseph was totally cool with GHod fudging his wife.
And to the point about "why can't you just let people disagree or have a different opinion?"...
If you want to think 2+2 = 5, sure, you can continue to believe that... but you're wrong. We're just trying to bring some enlightenment to the disillusioned.


Really didn't like the way he played. Runs around like his dingdong is too big and needs to take extra-long steps to compensate. Referee should've given him a red for tripping Sancho outside our box. Couldn't stand to watch him anymore so I turned off the TV before half-time.


Wow. You're a stubborn fudger aren't you


I agree, winning 3-0 against the Bundesliga leaders was a bit brick of a result.


Great post. Posters like scara would have us back to mid 90s Spurs where we were soft as brick.


Which leads me back to this little nugget:
Finally, if people are defending Sissoko more vehemently than other players, there's a very simple reason for that: people are offending Sissoko more vehemently than other players.

The scales are quite obviously tipping in the opposite direction.

Have I been wronged? If I were a sensitive soul Id suggest maybe I have. As have many who still reserve judgement on Sissoko as not being good enough.

Im not actually crying about it, Im really quite calm - more Im trying to point it out. Those virtuous self appointed defenders who take down the evil Sissoko slaggers at every chance are, actually, the ones being OTT and unreasonable.

Listen mate as much as I enjoy your posts on any subject other than Sissoko, I am not going to read that essay. Life is simply too short. I am out.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I'm here to claim my nugget. I know the verbage was a bit unorthodox, but you're mistaking something here. We don't come into this thread to effuse praise on him just for the sake of it. Most of the "praise" you're referring to is people TRYING to bring facts into this "argument."

Facts like this:
Moussa Sissoko (aka The Bogeyman)

"Its fair to say prior to this season Sissoko has barely featured in the side, would you agree?"
No.

Honestly, I'm surprised to see he has a goal for us. I definitely forgot about that one, but it was probably a goal-mouth scramble where he tripped over himself and slapped the ball in by accident with his ear.
Please don't preach about facts if you're not even willing to do a quick google search.

With that said, I don't have a problem agreeing with you or anyone on other topics. We're all supporting the same team after all... well, most of us are it seems.

the full quote, which you try to avoid, was in fact:
"Its fair to say prior to this season Sissoko has barely featured in the side, would you agree? Certainly not as a starter."

(Premier League)
2017/18 - 33 Appearances (18 as sub. So 15 starts)
2016/17 - 25 Appearances (17 as sub, so 8 starts)

Im fairly confident my point stands as fair and correct.

Im actually surprised its as many as it was last year.

The goal, as memory serves, was against huddersfield, a scuffed shot, quite clumsy, but after a good run.


No need to question my support of the team, thats below the belt.

And if youre going to try slapping facts at someone, make sure they count.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I find that a really narrow view, if you break up the play, carry the ball say 20/30 years and it sets the play up for an attack its very worth it, like I said earlier its all the moving parts of something bigger as a team. I just randomly found this video now and you look at the one twos, the yards covered where he then gets the ball into advanced areads for players that are there to be the creative threat, often picked up in our own half.

The reason we are who we are and why Poch has so much success is down to the fact everyone has a role to play, Sissoko for me is a huge part of that jigsaw that makes up the makeup of the team and the success of what we do, he is certainly as a workhorse and defensive midfielder a reason we can weather the injuries we do.

This is exactly my point - "and it sets the play up for an attack its very worth it". IMO, this isnt the result of the majority of his runs. And so, to claim he adds a great deal to his attack, or that his runs are particularly valuable, doesnt ring true for me.

If he starts to improve on this aspect as he has the defensive stuff, Ill be utterly delighted, but as it stands I just cant agree.

That video is presumably highlights for the whole season? So 3000+ minutes down to 5?

1:05 - picks the ball up, goes on a run, checks back and plays it square. The pass he ended up making was basically available when he got the ball. The run achieved nothing.

1:23 - A good run. Already in an advanced position and results in a shot (and potential rebound).

1:30 - A little dribble (not sure it counts as a run?) much like the first one could have been achieved with a pass in the first place. The run itself didnt achieve much.

1:40 - A decent run and pass. Progressed us. Same as pass could have in the first place (and quicker). More impressed by him pouncing on the loose ball.

2:07 - excellent piece of play

3:25 - good play

3:30 - runs forward only to check and pass back to a grand total of about 5 yards ahead of where he picked the ball up

3:42 - runs forward, does a complete 180, and passes it right back to the defence


Im not going through more of the video. The video does a very good job of show casing his defensive contributions, but does nothing to really convince he is adding much to our attack, for me.

GHod forbid any player picks a wrong choice

He draws in alot of fouls in the final third now which shows how much attention and a threat his runs are.

It doesnt. It shows a player running at other players and forcing them to defend. They arent thinking "this guys a real threat these days!" more like "Better close down this runner!"

Its not about "a" wrong choice. All players make bad decisions, lose the ball, misplace passes etc. Its about the balance of good vs bad choices and actions.

And as eye catching as it is to see a player charging off with the ball, for me Sissokos runs most often lack actual value.

Listen mate as much as I enjoy your posts on any subject other than Sissoko, I am not going to read that essay. Life is simply too short. I am out.

You should. You would then realise why Im saying what Im saying. And perhaps realise Im really not as wrong as you seem to think.

 

[glasgowspur]

1:19 - that run there. Gets the ball, Eriksen shows he wants the pass, Sissoko ends up running past him and getting a foul. For me the ball to Eriksen and our play flowing up the field would have been preferable.

Maybe you prefer the free kick?

And on the subject of runs - we've all noticed Winks making more. IMO - he makes better ones. In that his decisions on both when to run, and what to do when he has, are generally better than Sissokos.

I'm in the middle with sissoko, but you can't pick 1 move from a game and use it.
What about eriksen poor cross to set up son when they were both through, he had an excellent game but do judge him on that one moment.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I'm in the middle with sissoko, but you can't pick 1 move from a game and use it.
What about eriksen poor cross to set up son when they were both through, he had an excellent game but do judge him on that one moment.

Its purely an example taken from the video provided, no more.

It showed the sort of thing Ive been saying about the value of his runs, that was all. I was in no way looking at a single action to determine he had a bad game or anything like it.

If you look up thread, re last night and the weekend, Ive already stated I thought he played well.

 

[Grays_1890]

All of those runs you class as bad because he squares it to a player that was available at start or that he passes back all have a huge thing in common, it takes the pressure off the team, it sets the play and he does the work other players don't by carrying the ball the yard.

Theres a number of moments too where you don't highlight where he squares it and someone blazes it over or he switches play pretty nicely etc.

I played to a pretty decent semi pro standard when I was younger and that role was one where as a centre half was a dream for you, it also always mad the more creative player effective because you are askign alot less of them by giving them the ball in advanced places and areas of the pitch.

No player does it well every game or in every moment of the game but in my opinion you can't knock him for what he does and does well and its an example where in the game stats do often lie

 

[benp]

He is streets and streets ahead of the space invader. Cult hero King for sure. He is beyond all mentioned. Legend x 20!

Sissoko or Heurelio Gomez?

For me Sissoko edges it the crying incident in one game did not enhace Gomez's hero status.

 

[Robspur12]

Pretty much all of the rest of our team have the physical and technical attributes required - nobody else gets by just being physical.

Neither does Sissoko, he wouldn't last 5 minutes in a Poch team if he was all physical and no technical ability. Janssen proved that. Sissoko proved it too in previous seasons when he couldn't command a regular place. This season though he has upped his game so that he now contributes technically too. He makes mistakes though like everyone.

 

[Robspur12]

I cannot believe people are still having to defend Sissoko from comments about his brickness, with the contribution he has made this season and the way he has played. It's incredible. I don't think there is another player who gets this kind of criticism after a good game. That is the point with this crazy thread. Although I think @nayimfromthehalfwayline has brought his own kind of crazy here.

 

[papaspur]

the full quote, which you try to avoid, was in fact:
"Its fair to say prior to this season Sissoko has barely featured in the side, would you agree? Certainly not as a starter."

(Premier League)
2017/18 - 33 Appearances (18 as sub. So 15 starts)
2016/17 - 25 Appearances (17 as sub, so 8 starts)

Im fairly confident my point stands as fair and correct.

Im actually surprised its as many as it was last year.

The goal, as memory serves, was against huddersfield, a scuffed shot, quite clumsy, but after a good run.


No need to question my support of the team, thats below the belt.

And if youre going to try slapping facts at someone, make sure they count.

To be fair, I didn't mean that you personally don't support the club. I've tried to clarify in other posts that I'm making sweeping generalized comments based on the content of some posters. However, it seems I'm not the only one offering up nuggets. But yeah, I'm trying to play the ball here, not the man. The thing is, most people have an agenda that they're trying to promote versus being open-minded and willing to change their opinions on a matter (again, this isn't directed at you).

As for the actual facts at play, 15 starts in a player's second season isn't too bad at all (almost half the matches of a season). Anyway, your point was two-fold: 1) Sissoko barely featured in the side, and 2) he didn't start many games. I would say I addressed the first point and you addressed the second, but if "barely featured" = 1400 PL minutes (17-18) + 900 PL minutes (16-17, his first season), what can I say?
I'm 99% sure Scara is trolling... he's probably some bald dude like Levy sitting in a penthouse somewhere being served caviar by a trained monkey while steepling his fingers and thanking Sissoko for all the increased traffic.

To cap it off, I enjoy reading your other posts, but I simply don't get why Sissoko is so polarizing to fans on this forum, granted it's a very small number that seem to think he isn't contributing enough. If anything, it just makes me like him even more as a player and a person.

 

[papaspur]

I cannot believe people are still having to defend Sissoko from comments about his brickness, with the contribution he has made this season and the way he has played. It's incredible. I don't think there is another player who gets this kind of criticism after a good game. That is the point with this crazy thread. Although I think @nayimfromthehalfwayline has bought his own kind of crazy here.

I'd say Lamela was close, but I have to be fair and say that as much as I love Lamela, he hasn't always hit the standard he should've so the critique was well-warranted. Even now, after starting the season off well, Lamela can't get into the side despite Kane and Dele being out.

As for Sissoko, it's like an Uber driver that gets you to your destination on time, but maybe you didn't like the way he smiled at you so you give him a 2.5/5 Uber rating. I'm personally more curious than upset because it's the Internet and as you said earlier, life is too short.

 

[thfcsteff]

He was everywhere last night and the strength of his runs are top class, he must make opposing players fear him as he never seems to be knocked of the ball.

That run around the 60th minute when he fee Verts in was superb. He was so good last night. Credit to Poch for making sure he got an ovation:


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[scaramanga]

Neither does Sissoko, he wouldn't last 5 minutes in a Poch team if he was all physical and no technical ability. Janssen proved that. Sissoko proved it too in previous seasons when he couldn't command a regular place. This season though he has upped his game so that he now contributes technically too. He makes mistakes though like everyone.

If he wasn't our last fit, senior midfielder he wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes.

He's had a lot of game time because we've had an inordinate number of injuries to so many of the players who would naturally be picked ahead of him.

 

[thfcsteff]

Its fair to say prior to this season Sissoko has barely featured in the side, would you agree? Certainly not as a starter.

The logic you and BoL are trying follow would suggest then that we have been a tippy tappy soft as brick side until now.

When we all know that is not the case.

Because if you are honest with yourself you will admit that while Sissoko is indeed an incredible physical specimine, our whole team is made up of strong and combative players. Meaning he isnt the only one. Meaning its not a special talent only he brings to the table.

I think also, if you were really being honest, you would admit previous regulars like Dembele were not only strong and combative, but also intelligent and skillful. Certainly more so than Sissoko.

Which is, really, all people like Scara are getting at.

Controversial? Well it shouldnt be but just take a look at the thread...


I particularly liked this nugget from yesterday:
if people are defending Sissoko more vehemently than other players, there's a very simple reason for that: people are offending Sissoko more vehemently than other players


Its a given, a "fact", to most of you, that this is completely true.

Read back even just the last 5 pages, objectively, and youd find the opposite is actually the case.

People are defending Sissoko FAR more vehemently, and disproportionately, than anyone is "offending" him. Offending being - offering an opinion about his ability and suitability to our team.

They wont have it, so blinded they are by righteous indignation. Personal insults and slights fly from them, and I dont think they even notice.

This is a sensitive topic for you isn’t it mate. Perhaps because you’re wrong on the Mighty Sissoko?
(runs for cover giggling like a schoolkid and putting up the storm shields!!!!)


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[thfcsteff]

Maybe read some of the critisism again before you continually tell me what is true and untrue. It makes me laugh to read posts like yours which make out that somehow the Sissoko critics are somehow wronged.

Happy to add myself to those bringing you amusement mate. Look. It is OK. We all get it wrong, as you so eloquently posted a couple of days ago (fine post that was too)...

All good. Going strong in the only two competitions which mean a brick in club football.
The goons losing to Bate at HT on Thursday night. Enjoy it.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Maltese Falcon]

If he wasn't our last fit, senior midfielder he wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes.

He's had a lot of game time because we've had an inordinate number of injuries to so many of the players who would naturally be picked ahead of him.

We've been hearing the same broken record since the beginning of the season yet Sissoko has been continued to be picked when Lamela, Dier and Moura were simply bench warmers. You simply cannot accept the fact - which Poch has make clear unequivocally - he is in the team because our coach (lauded yesterday as one of the best in the planet) sees him as a key contributor.

You can continue to say otherwise till the cows come home but - just like Trump and climate change - you may convince yourself with your "arguments", you may even convince a hard core following, but anyone willing to look at the facts in an unbiased, rationale manner will immediate see them as BS.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

The video does a very good job of show casing his defensive contributions, but does nothing to really convince he is adding much to our attack, for me.

And what did Dembele add to the attack? Definitely not goals or assists.... Yet I never saw you on his thread berating him; and rightly so because he was still a important contributor to the team in other areas.

 

[Robspur12]

If he wasn't our last fit, senior midfielder he wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes.

He's had a lot of game time because we've had an inordinate number of injuries to so many of the players who would naturally be picked ahead of him.

You may be right. If everyone was fit he may not have had the game time. But so what? Why is that still relevant to the current situation. He has taken advantage of our bad situation and may now have cemented his place ahead of the likes of Dier and Wanyama even if they are fit. Neither would be a shoe in to regain their place ahead of Sissoko. So I think that line of argument is looking weaker by the day.

 

[scaramanga]

I'd say Lamela was close, but I have to be fair and say that as much as I love Lamela, he hasn't always hit the standard he should've so the critique was well-warranted. Even now, after starting the season off well, Lamela can't get into the side despite Kane and Dele being out.

As for Sissoko, it's like an Uber driver that gets you to your destination on time, but maybe you didn't like the way he smiled at you so you give him a 2.5/5 Uber rating. I'm personally more curious than upset because it's the Internet and as you said earlier, life is too short.

He's like an Uber driver haring about the place at 100mph, with no knowledge of how to drive other than to slam his foot on the noisy pedal. By some fluke you end up back where you started because everyone else steered out of the way.

The you get into a other cab with a real driver and get to your destination.