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Winning trophies or Champiosn League football?

What do you want to see Spurs achieve, winning trophies or CL football?

  • Winning Trophies

    Votes: 36 83.7%
  • Champions League football

    Votes: 7 16.3%

  • Total voters
    43

spurs' magna carter

Ronnie Rosenthal
After raising this in another thread I thought we should have a poll \o/

Ever since our capitulation at Stamford Bridge I've decided I want trophies, yes I would love to be back in the CL but I am genuinely getting sick to death of hearing about it. I wrote this a few weeks back to express why:

We Need A Miracle

In 1991 we lifted the FA Cup for a record 8th time. At the time there was really only two teams in London and there wasn't much between them.

London's trophy league 1991

1. Arsenal 16
2. Tottenham Hotspur 15
3. West Ham 4
4. Chelsea 3

Some 23 years later and there is hardly any pride left.

London trophy league 2014

1. Arsenal 28
2. Chelsea 19
3. Tottenham Hotspur 17
4. West Ham 4

There's so many threads on whether or not Levy is the problem or a case being put forward for a manager to take over but at this rate we need a miracle, we're being left behind. The fans are bitterly diappointed by the lack of CL football but when you look at the lack of silverware over the past 20 or so years then that really should be the last of their worries. It's as if London's footballing landscapre has gone the same way Portugal's did, only we are the crumbling sleeping giant that is Sporting Lisbon, with Arsenal being Benfica and Chelsea being the recently emerged power that is Porto.

1991 is now 23 years ago thus making this the second longest period of time in our history that we've gone without winning the FA Cup.

1. 1921 - 1960
2. 1991 -
3. 1882 - 1900
4. 1967 - 1980
5. 1982 - 1990

I could go on and on and on. It is all depressing reading and if I went on any further then the NHS would run out of Valium.

I don't believe it's all doom and gloom but it is sobering reading for so many of us, it should make us think about what this club's ambitions should really be.

The Champions League season in 2010/11 was one of the best I've ever enjoyed, when we beat Inter at home and then Milan away I was on cloud 9, laying awake at night half drunk thinking 'is this real, am I dreaming?' whilst pinching myself to sleep. Now though it feels like a life time away. With the trophy cabinet somewhat diminishing I feel that we haven't failed in CL qualification these past years but have put all our hopes and dreams into one thing thus over looking what really matters most in football, trophies.

A lot of people talk about how important CL qualification is in terms of building something special and how it will put us back on the map, attract better players and then the rest will follow. Horse sh!t. We all remember the '4th place final' of 2010 up at 'Eastlands', most on here most probably thought we had hit the jackpot, what we didn't know was that all it did was delay the inevitable. As it was Emirates Marketing Project who'd won the real lottery only two years earliar. The summer that followed Crouch's 'famous' header proved that we needed much more than just CL qualififcation

Emirates Marketing Project's summer 2010 window:

IN: James Milner (Aston Villa, £26m), Yaya Toure (Barcelona, £28m), Jerome Boateng (Hamburg, £10m), David Silva (Valencia, £24m), Aleksandar Kolarov (Lazio, £17m), Alex Henshall (Swindon Town, free), Albert Rusnak (MFK Kosice, undisclosed), Mario Balotelli (Inter Milan, £23m)

Whilst many will argue that is how you spend £110m whilst in the Europa League you must remember the wages on show, Yaya Toure alone was reportedly on £200-250k per week and that was after tax, so Gods knows what he's on now.

At the moment we can build on the current squad, it has plenty of use, depth and still some exciting young players coming through such as bentaleb and Pritchard. Yes it isn't good enough to win the league (which is my personal goal as a Tottenham fan) nor finish in the top four but it has enough to win trophies. Whilst we need the right man in the hot seat, whilst we need to strengthen in key areas (LB, CM, ST), we need to focus on what's most important, trophies or CL football. In an ideal World we'd want both with the constant focus on CL I think we need to re-examine our ambitions. The competition in the league is too strong for us but in a cup anything can happen, just ask the members of our 2007/08 squad and the current Sevilla squad who had a more memorable season than Barcelona, despite losing out on CL football again.

Arsenal have ended their wait for silverware whilst ours continues (6 years), we could continue to hate Arsenal as we do or we can focus on our own ambitions. We'll never like them (of course) but we won't get anywhere just hoping they slip whilst we fail to achieve any success ourselves. They won the cup, big whoop, they're in the CL again, big whoop, and Jack Wheelchair sung some stupid song, big whoop. Whilst they're our arch rivals it is time to focus on ourselves and winning trophies.

I'll leave you with this.

Tottenham Hotspur Honours:

League Champions: 1951, 1961
FA Cup: 1901, 1921, 1961, 1962, 1967, 1981, 1982, 1991
League Cup: 1971, 1973, 1999, 2008
Europa League: 1972, 1984
European Cup Winners' Cup: 1963​

Where does it say top four?

To create a winning mentality you must win trophies. This club is obsessed with CL qualification, the only thing you should obsess over is being the best, nothing else.
 
Champions League football is great to be a part of, how amazing was it beating the likes of Inter Milan and AC Milan and playing Real Madrid at the Bernebau and to have them at White Hart Lane etc and it brings in A LOT of money, but if we were in it every year, we'd just be in to make up numbers, which isn't a bad thing, you get the marquee games, that champions league music playing, that revenue.

but winning trophies is something else... something special.
 
Chicken before the egg debate, imo. Some people will argue that CL brings trophies with it as your revenue streams and global profiles both increase to allow for more talented, more developed and more 'winning' players, while other people will argue that winning trophies gets you the winning mentality you need to get into the CL, which then helps further in your quest for trophies, etcetera, etcetera.

For what it's worth, I agree with you: I'd take a trophy or CL any day. We have fallen a long way from 1991 while our rivals have moved up quite a few rungs. Now that's not irreversible. Not yet. But we need to start winning things if we want to climb up that 'all time honours' league table, which should be the club's main goal either way imo.
 
You don't become an Elite club by just qualifying for the Champions League, you have to win trophies on a regular bases.
 
If you're regulary in the Champions League, you'll win cups by default of your strenght.
However, the idea that Spurs will ever solidate ourselves in the Champions League is ridiculous.
We're fighting against financial powers that are twice (Arsenal, Chelsea) or three times (Man Utd) our size, even a club that have no financial limits (Emirates Marketing Project).
Our role will be to challenge them and occasionally qualify for the Champions League, to believe anything else is delusional
This makes winning trophies that more important for Spurs (and Liverpool) than the rest of the top clubs.
We have a very proud record to uphold as well, together with Manchester United we're the only clubs to have won a trophy every decade since the 1950s.
Guess what I'm saying is that we have to fight on every front, I do not believe in sacrifying one tournament for another, at least not as a permanent rule for every season.
We need to finish high regulary, we need to qualify for Champions League from time to time, and we need to pick up trophies more regulary than we have in the Premier League era.
 
I'm old school. Trophies all day long

Our honours board will always say FA Cup Winner 8 times, it will never say CL Qualifiers x 1
 
You don't become an Elite club by just qualifying for the Champions League, you have to win trophies on a regular bases.

You don't become an elite club by winning the League Cup either.

I hate to say it but Arsene Wneger is right when he says that when you go to sign a player they want to know if you are in the Champions League.
 
Very tough question. On the other thread people are ****ging off the 1999 League team and final, and I agree it wasn't a great team or season to watch.

We didn't win anything in our Champions league season but it sticks in the memory and what an exciting team to watch so I would lean towards champions league as you can only really get there with this level of player.

Somewhere in the middle I guess is the 2008 cup winning side, bit of flair, great to watch occasionally and a trophy..
 
How many clubs in Europe win trophies on anything resembling a regular basis without qualifying for the CL more than once?
 
How many clubs in Europe win trophies on anything resembling a regular basis without qualifying for the CL more than once?

We have the opportunity to do both this season, that's why despite not wanting us to be competition, qualifying for the Europa League this year could be a blessing in disguise.
 
You don't become an elite club by winning the League Cup either.

I hate to say it but Arsene Wneger is right when he says that when you go to sign a player they want to know if you are in the Champions League.

How many clubs in Europe win trophies on anything resembling a regular basis without qualifying for the CL more than once?

Agreed.

If we want to regain our mantle as the cup specialists then we need to become top 4 regulars again, as Spurs were back in the glory days of Nicholson and Burkinshaw.

Well unless some fans now think that finishing mid table and winning the League Cup once a decade is more glorious an achievement :-/
 
I guess it depends - are you a football fan, or are you an accountant?

I really can't believe any fans would not choose a trophy. Look how delighted Arsenal fans were last month - the glory of winning at Wembley is something no amount of 4th placed rosettes could come close to comparing with.

4th = loser #3. If you win a cup, you are the best of those that entered.

1991 (final and semi) and 2008 were the three greatest moments in my Spurs supporting life. Getting top 4 in 89/90 and 09/10 don't anywhere close.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love us playing in Europe. But I don't buy the hype of the CL is all. I really think the EL is just as good to be in - glory glory nights at the Lane, exotic visitors, two-legged knock out ties - that's what it's about, not the £s.
 
I guess it depends - are you a football fan, or are you an accountant?

I really can't believe any fans would not choose a trophy. Look how delighted Arsenal fans were last month - the glory of winning at Wembley is something no amount of 4th placed rosettes could come close to comparing with.

4th = loser #3. If you win a cup, you are the best of those that entered.

1991 (final and semi) and 2008 were the three greatest moments in my Spurs supporting life. Getting top 4 in 89/90 and 09/10 don't anywhere close.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love us playing in Europe. But I don't buy the hype of the CL is all. I really think the EL is just as good to be in - glory glory nights at the Lane, exotic visitors, two-legged knock out ties - that's what it's about, not the £s.

I'm both :)

Winning trophies gets you noticed, qualifying for the Champion's league gets you the players. So yeah 4th and the FA Cup will do.
 
You don't become an elite club by winning the League Cup either.

I hate to say it but Arsene Wneger is right when he says that when you go to sign a player they want to know if you are in the Champions League.

Spot on.

How many clubs in Europe win trophies on anything resembling a regular basis without qualifying for the CL more than once?

Not many I'm guessing.

Looking at England and the FA-cup winners the numbers are quite overwhelming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FA_Cup_finals

Since the formation of the Premier League and the influx of CL money I count 3 FA-cup winners that weren't CL teams. Everton in 94/95 (debatable inclusion), Portsmouth in 07/08 and Wigan in 12/13. To Milo's point above that hasn't made any of those clubs an elite club.

With 17 of the last 20 FA-cups being won by the CL participants (if my counting is correct) it highlights the problem of attempting to become a "cup team" at this point.

The numbers are less overwhelming for the league cup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Football_League_Cup_finals

But that still remains a competition that's even smaller. And I think it's telling that even if though we won it in '99 and '08, and with two wins in 10 years probably being above what we can realistically hope for, this period wasn't considered a particularly successful period by most fans as a result of those two wins.
 
I guess it depends - are you a football fan, or are you an accountant?

I really can't believe any fans would not choose a trophy. Look how delighted Arsenal fans were last month - the glory of winning at Wembley is something no amount of 4th placed rosettes could come close to comparing with.

4th = loser #3. If you win a cup, you are the best of those that entered.

1991 (final and semi) and 2008 were the three greatest moments in my Spurs supporting life. Getting top 4 in 89/90 and 09/10 don't anywhere close.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love us playing in Europe. But I don't buy the hype of the CL is all. I really think the EL is just as good to be in - glory glory nights at the Lane, exotic visitors, two-legged knock out ties - that's what it's about, not the £s.

As a fan I can think that it's more likely that we'll get that glory if we first get regular CL football.
 
The former.... all day long!

Winning a trophy results in our name going down in the history books.

The problem is that playing into the Champions League provides more exposure and higher revenues, enabling us to attract (and pay) better players which then make it more likely that we will win a domestic trophy.

We've been reasonably close to winning a trophy on a few occasions in recent years. I think that if we continue to improve the squad and gameplan then a trophy or two will follow and then it's about whether we can continue to improve so that we are likely to win a trophy as opposed to it just being a possibility. In the meantime the clubs you mention are likely to pull further ahead of us in the trophy stakes, that's just the way it is due to their vastly bigger budgets. Our challenge is to move ourselves nearer to their budget (via relative success) and then, as our means grow, seek to replace them as the trophy 'probables'.
 
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