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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Think his point was about the Brexit benefit. As the whole world has has covid that shouldn’t make a difference. But rather than the UK looking better off if anything we look like we’re worse off than others.

Have people given up on the Brexit Bonus or just think it will be arriving next year? :confused:

USA is being smashed as hard, they were talking about running out of baby formula last week.

Inflation there is out of control as well.
 
USA is being smashed as hard, they were talking about running out of baby formula last week.

Inflation there is out of control as well.

I would also think its more sensible to compare the UK from before to the UK now not against the rest of Europe. We are undoubtedly worse off but like you say, anyone contributing it solely to Brexit and ignoring Covid is just spinning there own rhetoric. If I look at my own circumstances over the last two years Covids had the largest impact on me financially for many reasons
 
I would also think its more sensible to compare the UK from before to the UK now not against the rest of Europe. We are undoubtedly worse off but like you say, anyone contributing it solely to Brexit and ignoring Covid is just spinning there own rhetoric. If I look at my own circumstances over the last two years Covids had the largest impact on me financially for many reasons

Fair, I also agree

This was an issue before the War in Ukraine, which is another reason other than Covid being pushed.
 
They've only just started working on legislation to replace that from the EU now haven't they?

Sure. But the trade impacts with queues and checks, the red tape and form-filling for our exporters, and the political impacts in Ireland etc have been felt for much longer. None of these things you thought would be an issue pre-Brexit if I recall.

You're suggesting that these legislative changes will bring the Brexit Bonuses? Can you point to the new laws, and how the fiscal benefits might follow?
 
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I would also think its more sensible to compare the UK from before to the UK now not against the rest of Europe. We are undoubtedly worse off but like you say, anyone contributing it solely to Brexit and ignoring Covid is just spinning there own rhetoric. If I look at my own circumstances over the last two years Covids had the largest impact on me financially for many reasons

How we recover from Covid is the test really. There are some suggestions we might not recover as quickly as other nations with the disruption from Brexit. In the travel sector...If you look at language schools in Hastings as a case study, you can see that both Covid and Brexit have impacted them. Brexit has impacted their recovery with additional paperwork and costs for bodies of kids who wish to come and spend the summer learning English. Covid plunged the knife in, Brexit wiggled it a little. Now most of these schools are closed and the UK doesn't get that foreign revenue. I agree the Brexit impacts are far far less than Covid and Ukraine, but the whole world has exposure to that, we just have the added inconvenience of Brexit. And that is the point: it is an inconvenience, not massive fall out like covid, but it nags and slows the UK down in various small ways.
 
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Go through the threads and you will see I’m anti Brexit

but blaming Brexit for some of the stuff going on now is mad, we shut down the world for 2 years, printed money, gave it away and disrupted supply chains - I would say that has a lot more to do with the mess we are in than Brexit

i agree, it's not solely Brexit but... Covid affected everyone no?

Did Germany or Italy or France not lockdown? That definitely has a bigger impact than Brexit. Yet our inflation and GDP growth worse than others because:

  • Covid
  • Brexit
  • Absolutely tinkle poor government management
 
Go through the threads and you will see I’m anti Brexit

but blaming Brexit for some of the stuff going on now is mad, we shut down the world for 2 years, printed money, gave it away and disrupted supply chains - I would say that has a lot more to do with the mess we are in than Brexit

The NI situation is a mess, as predicted; inflation here is outstripping anywhere else in Europe; gas prices in the UK are up 50%+ on average, whereas in France - for example- they have risen by an average of 4.2%; there is a labour shortage, at least in part due to falling immigration; the Bank of England say that recession is on its way, and that Brexit will have a negative impact on the British economy for at least 20 years; and we’re on course to see the biggest fall in living standards since records began.

Meanwhile, the benefits are…?

No one is saying that all of the above can be entirely attributed to Brexit. Hard to argue that it has helped in any way, or that there seems to be a plan forward which seeks to rectify the issues.
 
How we recover from Covid is the test really. There are some suggestions we might not recover as quickly as other nations with the disruption from Brexit. In the travel sector...If you look at language schools in Hastings as a case study, you can see that both Covid and Brexit have impacted them, with Brexiting harming their recovery with additional paperwork and cost for bodies of kids who used to come and spend the summer learning English. Covid plunged the knife in, and Brexit effects wiggled it a little. Now most of these schools are closed and the UK doesn't get all that foreign revenue. I agree the Brexit impacts are far far less than Covid and Ukraine, but the whole world has exposure to that, we just have the added inconvenience of Brexit. And that is the point: it is an inconvenience, not massively, but it nags and slows us down in various small ways.

If course in total it's not a good time for the UK but hard to blame one area.

The UK travel industry is going to be far and away how other countries react to COVID still. If they don't catch up then outbound and inbound travel will be fooked
 
The NI situation is a mess, as predicted; inflation here is outstripping anywhere else in Europe; gas prices in the UK are up 50%+ on average, whereas in France - for example- they have risen by an average of 4.2%; there is a labour shortage, at least in part due to falling immigration; the Bank of England say that recession is on its way, and that Brexit will have a negative impact on the British economy for at least 20 years; and we’re on course to see the biggest fall in living standards since records began.

Meanwhile, the benefits are…?

No one is saying that all of the above can be entirely attributed to Brexit. Hard to argue that it has helped in any way, or that there seems to be a plan forward which seeks to rectify the issues.


France don't rely on fossil fuel as much as they have a large nuclear output.
 
Sure. But the trade impacts with queues and checks, the red tape and form-filling for our exporters, and the political impacts in Ireland etc have been felt for much longer. None of these things you thought would be an issue pre-Brexit if I recall.

You're suggesting that these legislative changes will bring the Brexit Bonuses? Can you point to the new laws, and how the fiscal benefits might follow?
We've been through the regulation stuff before. You ignored my points then, so if you wish to argue them you can dig them out from this thread and do so.

As for the trade impacts, I'm still sending goods into the EU and buying from it as I did before. It's no more onerous (to me or my business) than buying and selling anywhere else. The customs problems are just Europeans being the petty bureaucrats we've always known them to be. Eventually they'll tire of that and start treating the UK like they do all the other external nations they trade with.

The political impact in NI didn't need to be there - that's incompetence at the negotiation stage. The govt had 2 options regarding NI:
  1. Tell the EU we're not putting a border in Ireland. If they choose to do so, then so be it
  2. Do as we have now but allocate an annual budget of £1 to the customs department dealing with UK/NI trade
 
How we recover from Covid is the test really. There are some suggestions we might not recover as quickly as other nations with the disruption from Brexit. In the travel sector...If you look at language schools in Hastings as a case study, you can see that both Covid and Brexit have impacted them. Brexit has impacted their recovery with additional paperwork and costs for bodies of kids who wish to come and spend the summer learning English. Covid plunged the knife in, Brexit wiggled it a little. Now most of these schools are closed and the UK doesn't get that foreign revenue. I agree the Brexit impacts are far far less than Covid and Ukraine, but the whole world has exposure to that, we just have the added inconvenience of Brexit. And that is the point: it is an inconvenience, not massive fall out like covid, but it nags and slows the UK down in various small ways.
Coming out of COVID, the UK was recovering better than most of the EU. Putin waving his mangina about the place seems to have hit us harder than most, but that's to be expected for a country that imports so much in a global production downturn.
 
The NI situation is a mess, as predicted; inflation here is outstripping anywhere else in Europe; gas prices in the UK are up 50%+ on average, whereas in France - for example- they have risen by an average of 4.2%; there is a labour shortage, at least in part due to falling immigration; the Bank of England say that recession is on its way, and that Brexit will have a negative impact on the British economy for at least 20 years; and we’re on course to see the biggest fall in living standards since records began.

Meanwhile, the benefits are…?

No one is saying that all of the above can be entirely attributed to Brexit. Hard to argue that it has helped in any way, or that there seems to be a plan forward which seeks to rectify the issues.
Nobody sensible is saying any of it is because of Brexit.
 
A good summary of why we're so fudged. Printing money isn't free, there isn't a magic money tree.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...driving-britain-nightmare-inflation-idleness/

To the experts, economists and other idiot savants who inexplicably failed to see this storm coming, thanks for nothing. All of their acronyms, PhDs, fancy modelling and algorithms have proved useless: Britain and the world are plunging into the most terrifying economic, political and cultural crisis of the past 40 years. A bunch of intelligent amateurs couldn’t have done much worse.

Inflation is out of control, a terrible recession is looming and higher interest rates are about to send house prices tumbling and unemployment soaring: the politicians are still in denial, unlike the voters, but the reckoning, when it comes, will be traumatic.

This is like the financial crisis all over again, only worse: for the second time in less than 15 years, the public has been betrayed by a failed technocratic orthodoxy, an over-educated yet staggeringly ignorant ruling class convinced that it can defy human nature as well as the laws of economics.

Why do these people never learn? Why do they have no shame? Where is the abject apology from the Governor of the Bank of England for the fact that, even after stripping out the cost of food and energy, inflation is hugely higher than his target? And why are our politicians refusing to treat this crisis with the sense of emergency that it requires?

The system is broken, millions are facing poverty, the middle classes are being hammered and yet no action is being taken on tax or supply-side deregulation, while interest rates, scandalously, remain at just 1 per cent. Why is the Chancellor not holding Andrew Bailey, the Governor, publicly to account for his reluctance to act and his abysmal predictions? Since when is the Bank’s “independence” an excuse to allow it to fail with zero consequences, with no genuine oversight? The cowardice and buck-passing are sickening.

The rot started, as with so much else, in 1997 with the election of Tony Blair. The Bank of England was given the wrong mandate when it was granted its operational autonomy: it had to focus almost exclusively on consumer price inflation, rather than asset prices (such as property) or financial stability. Soon enough, house prices started to surge, the Bank ignored the liquidity-fuelled madness in the City, and economists on a power trip started to believe their own propaganda.

The experts drew exactly the wrong lessons in 2008 when Northern Rock and Lehman Brothers went bust: they thought that bailouts and ultra-low interest rates were the answer to every problem, even though they were actually the very cause of the irrational exuberance of the 2000s.

All of these tools and more were wheeled out again and again over the past decade, as those entrusted with our money convinced themselves that inflation was forever tamed. Fixated as they were on narrow measures of price increases, they turned a blind eye to the money gushing into property, commodities or tech stocks. The central banks, the supposed guardians of our capitalist society, had become central planners, prisoners of an intoxicating groupthink: they were sure they could manipulate interest rates and use QE to guarantee perpetual growth. They thought they were right, GHod-like even, and everybody who didn’t buy into their new religion was not just wrong but stupid and old-fashioned.

The politicians, starting with David Cameron, lost interest in economics: an older generation of Tories studied Keynes, Hayek, Friedman and even Mises to understand the chaos of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, but their successors – with a few glorious exceptions – couldn’t be bothered. They quickly forgot two of the golden rules of economics: too much money chasing too few goods, services and assets pushes up their price; and debasing the currency is one of the easiest ways to destroy a civilisation.

Instead, the job of the politician, as Cameron, Theresa May and even Boris Johnson see it, is to divvy up the proceeds of growth that somehow automatically appear like manna from heaven, rather than having to think how to grow the size of the GDP pie. Thanks to the magic of ever-lower interest rates, it no longer mattered whether they hit businesses with regulations or entrepreneurs with higher taxes – or so they thought.

This emboldened the hard-Left. If it was OK to print money after the sub-prime crisis, why not print more now to pay for public spending? Why not ignore budget deficits altogether? The centre-Right, meanwhile, embraced green and public health schemes to make energy, travel and food more expensive, convinced that overall prices would remain low.

The lockdowns were the culmination of this madness: the Government spent as if in a World War, “paid” for by central banks creating money out of thin air. The Corbynites had won. The magic money-tree was normalised, with catastrophic short, medium and long-term consequences that haven’t all become clear. Millions became addicted to the crack cocaine of free money. House prices and share prices rose further, fuelling the rage of the have-nots. Many decided that they were entitled to an income without needing to work for it. Older workers quit the labour market. A socialist ethic gained ground, undermining the free society.

The benefit-to-cost ratio of lockdowns continues to deteriorate: yes, furlough bailed out millions, but now is the time to pay up, and the inflation tax, dislocation and cultural meltdown is going to prove extraordinarily steep.

The inflationary hit is being greatly exacerbated by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the massively reduced supply of food this is causing. But this supply shock comes in the context of years of excessively low interest rates and quantitative easing, a grievous set of errors for which Western elites have nobody to blame but themselves. Inflation would have been a massive problem even without Putin’s crimes.

It now looks as if the public will either be forced to accept its greatest real-terms pay cut ever, or wages will spiral, requiring a savage overreaction via much higher interest rates – and a bitter recession – to wring the inflation out of the system.

“Why did no one see it coming?” the Queen asked after the demise of Lehman Brothers during a trip to the London School of Economics in 2008. The answer then is the same as it is today: a toxic combination of intellectual error, hubris and political short-termism. The voters’ revenge, when it comes, will be pitiless.
 
We've been through the regulation stuff before. You ignored my points then, so if you wish to argue them you can dig them out from this thread and do so.

As for the trade impacts, I'm still sending goods into the EU and buying from it as I did before. It's no more onerous (to me or my business) than buying and selling anywhere else. The customs problems are just Europeans being the petty bureaucrats we've always known them to be. Eventually they'll tire of that and start treating the UK like they do all the other external nations they trade with.

The political impact in NI didn't need to be there - that's incompetence at the negotiation stage. The govt had 2 options regarding NI:
  1. Tell the EU we're not putting a border in Ireland. If they choose to do so, then so be it
  2. Do as we have now but allocate an annual budget of £1 to the customs department dealing with UK/NI trade

To reference you: none of these impacts need to be there. You can't point to anything that is new and fresh from Brexit. You can only speculate on possible benefits you mentioned years before. Most of your post is about impacts and the degrees of hassle. Says it all really.
 
To reference you: none of these impacts need to be there. You can't point to anything that is new and fresh from Brexit. You can only speculate on possible benefits you mentioned years before. Most of your post is about impacts and the degrees of hassle. Says it all really.
Of course the benefits are only possible, this government has been far too busy spaffing my money up the wall to have done anything of note.

If the public votes in a truly conservative government with half an understanding on economics then it will be different.
 
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