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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

parklane1 said:
The difference being he actually won things with his/the previous teams that had downed tools, would you say that is a fair comment.:)
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I'm starting to think that this is the crux of the matter. Perhaps Mourinho had spent so many years working with top players* and huge wage budgets that, when faced with our motley crew and not being able to recruit at the top end of the market, he just couldn't cope. I'd argue that the last time Mourinho worked at an underdog club was Inter Milan, and that was 10 years ago...and besides which, he inherited the likes of Zanetti, Maicon (before Bale destroyed him), Cambiasso, and Zlatan at his peak.

Also Figo and Vieira, who were past their best (at 34 and 31) but still proven winners. Stick those two into our midfield and we sure as hell wouldn't be conceding late goals every game.

* While we do have some top players, we've never been able to simply go out and buy more of them on a consistent basis. Not the way Real, Chelsea and ManU do.
 
FatBloke said:
I'm starting to think that this is the crux of the matter. Perhaps Mourinho had spent so many years working with top players* and huge wage budgets that, when faced with our motley crew and not being able to recruit at the top end of the market, he just couldn't cope. I'd argue that the last time Mourinho worked at an underdog club was Inter Milan, and that was 10 years ago...and besides which, he inherited the likes of Zanetti, Maicon (before Bale destroyed him), Cambiasso, and Zlatan at his peak.

Also Figo and Vieira, who were past their best (at 34 and 31) but still proven winners. Stick those two into our midfield and we sure as hell wouldn't be conceding late goals every game.

* While we do have some top players, we've never been able to simply go out and buy more of them on a consistent basis. Not the way Real, Chelsea and ManU do.
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I can't dance with most of that to be honest, but he has now gone and we should all move on and hope that whoever we next get as a manager is able to get a song out of what has been a shambles at times. And BOTH Jose and s ome players have to take the blame for that.
 
FatBloke said:
I'm starting to think that this is the crux of the matter. Perhaps Mourinho had spent so many years working with top players* and huge wage budgets that, when faced with our motley crew and not being able to recruit at the top end of the market, he just couldn't cope. I'd argue that the last time Mourinho worked at an underdog club was Inter Milan, and that was 10 years ago...and besides which, he inherited the likes of Zanetti, Maicon (before Bale destroyed him), Cambiasso, and Zlatan at his peak.

Also Figo and Vieira, who were past their best (at 34 and 31) but still proven winners. Stick those two into our midfield and we sure as hell wouldn't be conceding late goals every game.

* While we do have some top players, we've never been able to simply go out and buy more of them on a consistent basis. Not the way Real, Chelsea and ManU do.
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Inter were only underdogs in Europe and only against that Barcelona side. Their team was every bit as good as the rest of European elite.

Since his job at Leiria he has never worked with the non elite in whatever league he's been managing in. We were a very bad fit for him.
 
parklane1 said:
We went from being in the CL final to a team who at the end looked a shambles, do you really think/believe that ALL those players who performed like brick ( mostly) did so because they were over the hill all of a sudden? As we say its all about o pinions but it was unusual to say the least. And some of those players have been crap under Jose as well.
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Not to go too far over old ground but the decline under Poch didn't begin in the season he was sacked. Some people argue it happened around the time of the Burnley 2-1 loss in early 2019 and some argue it was the 1-3 v Wolves in late 2018. I go back further. I think we started to struggle after we beat Chelsea 3-1 at their place at the end of 17-18. The performances after that saw us limp over the line a bit. In 2018/2019 the performances weren't great from the off and it took a while for results to catch up. The last great performance I remember under Poch was the 6-2 at Everton but that was the exception rather than the rule. We looked to have run out of gas.

And I guess that's my point. The downward spiral was a gradual thing that began long before Poch went. And it wasn't the players' fault in my view. It just went stale. And that wasn't Poch's fault either, he was being asked to work miracles like qualify for the CL, do it without being at home, on a smaller budget than anyone else and with no signings. While I did get tinkled off with him by the end because of his public statements, what the man achieved has my eternal gratitude. The person I think is most responsible for the downward spiral is Levy for not investing in the squad. He had his reasons, which may ultimately prove to be correct, and by all accounts gave Poch options. But he didn't back the best manager we had in almost 60 years with what he wanted.

So I don't buy the argument that our players habitually down tools. I think some of them aren't as professional as say Harry but in my view, Harry is a very rare breed. We may have 1 or 2 questionable characters but I really don't think that towel throwing is a trait that runs through most of the squad.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Not to go too far over old ground but the decline under Poch didn't begin in the season he was sacked. Some people argue it happened around the time of the Burnley 2-1 loss in early 2019 and some argue it was the 1-3 v Wolves in late 2018. I go back further. I think we started to struggle after we beat Chelsea 3-1 at their place at the end of 17-18. The performances after that saw us limp over the line a bit. In 2018/2019 the performances weren't great from the off and it took a while for results to catch up. The last great performance I remember under Poch was the 6-2 at Everton but that was the exception rather than the rule. We looked to have run out of gas.

And I guess that's my point. The downward spiral was a gradual thing that began long before Poch went. And it wasn't the players' fault in my view. It just went stale. And that wasn't Poch's fault either, he was being asked to work miracles like qualify for the CL, do it without being at home, on a smaller budget than anyone else and with no signings. While I did get tinkled off with him by the end because of his public statements, what the man achieved has my eternal gratitude. The person I think is most responsible for the downward spiral is Levy for not investing in the squad. He had his reasons, which may ultimately prove to be correct, and by all accounts gave Poch options. But he didn't back the best manager we had in almost 60 years with what he wanted.

So I don't buy the argument that our players habitually down tools. I think some of them aren't as professional as say Harry but in my view, Harry is a very rare breed. We may have 1 or 2 questionable characters but I really don't think that towel throwing is a trait that runs through most of the squad.
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You may s ome good points and i can agree with s ome of them, however its onwards and upwards now and we shall have to wait and see what happens under a new manager. I still say we need to get rid of a lot of players though if we are to progress.
 
parklane1 said:
You may s ome good points and i can agree with s ome of them, however its onwards and upwards now and we shall have to wait and see what happens under a new manager. I still say we need to get rid of a lot of players though if we are to progress.
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I would agree with that. I think some players need to go as much for themselves as for us. It's just run its course for them.
 
can't help but think that levy had worked his options out with the ESL announcement.
even if it means distraction or obfuscation ... to divert attention from the longer term matter of the ESL.
in any case we should be able to attract better coaches now.... on levy terms too.
 
Jamie roosternobb said on Sky that Jose severance pay is based on his current position so cheaper for us with us in 7th than say in 3rd
 
DeanoAustin said:
Not to go too far over old ground but the decline under Poch didn't begin in the season he was sacked. Some people argue it happened around the time of the Burnley 2-1 loss in early 2019 and some argue it was the 1-3 v Wolves in late 2018. I go back further. I think we started to struggle after we beat Chelsea 3-1 at their place at the end of 17-18. The performances after that saw us limp over the line a bit. In 2018/2019 the performances weren't great from the off and it took a while for results to catch up. The last great performance I remember under Poch was the 6-2 at Everton but that was the exception rather than the rule. We looked to have run out of gas.

And I guess that's my point. The downward spiral was a gradual thing that began long before Poch went. And it wasn't the players' fault in my view. It just went stale. And that wasn't Poch's fault either, he was being asked to work miracles like qualify for the CL, do it without being at home, on a smaller budget than anyone else and with no signings. While I did get tinkled off with him by the end because of his public statements, what the man achieved has my eternal gratitude. The person I think is most responsible for the downward spiral is Levy for not investing in the squad. He had his reasons, which may ultimately prove to be correct, and by all accounts gave Poch options. But he didn't back the best manager we had in almost 60 years with what he wanted.

So I don't buy the argument that our players habitually down tools. I think some of them aren't as professional as say Harry but in my view, Harry is a very rare breed. We may have 1 or 2 questionable characters but I really don't think that towel throwing is a trait that runs through most of the squad.
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Agree with the downward spiral. We had not seen much positive turnover during that time and of course we had two years of ZERO transfers that exacerbated the problem. It can be explained through the unexpected increase in stadium build costs, so Levy had a lot to do to balance the books. The only part where we could influence were low budget transfers. In that area we made a mess of it investing for the future (Clarke/Sessegnon) when the flagging performances was the more urgent and important concern. The "transfer committee decisions" - that's a central part of the solution. Even with more money I don't think this group can value talent and balance short term vs long term needs of on-field performances well enough to be competitive for CL places.
 
Difficult to know how all the players are feeling, obviously some (Dele, Bale) will be happy. But I have no clue as to whether the likes of Kane and Son were happy playing under him. Kane may now be more inclined to leave rather than go through another rebuilding process.
 
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