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Another shooting in Murica

markysimmo said:
"It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, mobile phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault, you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility.

When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.

Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colors, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.

They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.

They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.

Many law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.

If you want to protect your child, teach them respect."

~ Sheriff David Clarke
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Valid points. But respect works (or should work) both ways. It often doesn’t.
 
thfcsteff said:
You're doing it again. You insert these small "details" and they become part of the narrative. You have suggested that I said the police would've "shot him" had he been black. Whilst that is absolutely a very possible outcome, my main thrust was to illustrate that the 17 year old would not have been allowed to walk on freely. He would've been stopped in some fashion by the police - and in this case, they'd have been doing their jobs properly as the 17 year old is a murderer.

You live in a world where statistics and figures appear to dominate your thinking as opposed to informing aspects of it. As we both know, statistics and figures are only worth the bodies from which they are generated; it is hard to find political stats which are wholly universal as achieving such sample sizes is virtually impossible.I deleted a response to the crime stats exchange we had based on this sentiment.

If you could step out from your desk, slip on the silk smoking jacket and get the pipe and slippers too for a leisurely ponder in the clubhouse chair, you'd allow yourself to admit that "yes, it is obvious a 17 year old black male with a large firearm would not have been allowed to walk away from the scene of an active crime."

The officers who let him walk away should be sacked. It is very fortunate that this frontally-lobe-challenged misfit didn't shoot more people.
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Maybe in this case the police were more focused on stopping the rioters than other people who were also trying to stop the rioters.

Makes sense to do that.
 
scaramanga said:
Maybe in this case the police were more focused on stopping the rioters than other people who were also trying to stop the rioters.

Makes sense to do that.
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I was finding a possible agreement until the last sentence. Nothing whatsoever about it "makes sense"...
 
thfcsteff said:
I was finding a possible agreement until the last sentence. Nothing whatsoever about it "makes sense"...
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Put yourself in their position.

There's a violent mob, supporting a group that's pretty much declared themselves your enemy. There's one, single kid who may or may not have committed crimes who is trying to help stop the violent mob.

Ideally I'm sure the police would like to be able to arrest everyone committing every crime. In the real world, numbers and time available are finite. So far better to take the "my enemy's enemy" stance and continue stopping the violent mob.
 
scaramanga said:
Put yourself in their position.

There's a violent mob, supporting a group that's pretty much declared themselves your enemy. There's one, single kid who may or may not have committed crimes who is trying to help stop the violent mob.

Ideally I'm sure the police would like to be able to arrest everyone committing every crime. In the real world, numbers and time available are finite. So far better to take the "my enemy's enemy" stance and continue stopping the violent mob.
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Violent mob?! According to what or whom? Utter nonsense.

'Violent mob' is what your ilk label protestor's in order to justify them being gunned down.
 
nayenezgani said:
Violent mob?! According to what or whom? Utter nonsense.

'Violent mob' is what your ilk label protestor's in order to justify them being gunned down.
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Sorry, I was getting confused.

It's those pesky buildings setting themselves alight again.
 
scaramanga said:
Put yourself in their position.

There's a violent mob, supporting a group that's pretty much declared themselves your enemy. There's one, single kid who may or may not have committed crimes who is trying to help stop the violent mob.

Ideally I'm sure the police would like to be able to arrest everyone committing every crime. In the real world, numbers and time available are finite. So far better to take the "my enemy's enemy" stance and continue stopping the violent mob.
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Utter flimous-flamous.

What "violent-mob"? The ones that came to attack protestors? Like this 17 year old gun toting assassin? You say "one single kid" like he was a weedy little thing holding a lollipop and wearing a Mickey Mouse t-shirt. Scara. He was hiding a giant fudging firearm and walking calmly towards a battery of cops. They're lucky he wasn't a bigger arsehole and nutter than he already was/is. Their job, at that specific moment, was to detain him instantly as a matter of public safety. They'll have known shots had been fired and there were casualties. It was utter, contemptuous negligence. "Numbers and available time" hahahahahahah, you old comic. Paint it any way you want. It was negligence.
 
scaramanga said:
Sorry, I was getting confused.

It's those pesky buildings setting themselves alight again.
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The dots you join -and your rationale in some of these discussions- are at best bizarre. What do burning buildings have to do with letting a person brandishing a giant firearm in the wake of reported gunshots and casualties walk away unchallenged have to do with each other. You'll have to do better than your previous attempt to justify this gross negligence of duty.
 
nayenezgani said:
Violence against inanimate objects justifies ignoring violence against humans. Cool.
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Of course it does. Those buildings belong to people - they're their homes and their businesses.

Anyone joining a mob to destroy that has removed themselves from civilised society and deserves none of its protections.
 
thfcsteff said:
The dots you join -and your rationale in some of these discussions- are at best bizarre. What do burning buildings have to do with letting a person brandishing a giant firearm in the wake of reported gunshots and casualties walk away unchallenged have to do with each other. You'll have to do better than your previous attempt to justify this gross negligence of duty.
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Police were there to stop a violent mob. He helped them do that.

Stopping and arresting him was clearly of far lesser concern than continuing to stop the mob.
 
thfcsteff said:
Utter flimous-flamous.

What "violent-mob"? The ones that came to attack protestors? Like this 17 year old gun toting assassin? You say "one single kid" like he was a weedy little thing holding a lollipop and wearing a Mickey Mouse t-shirt. Scara. He was hiding a giant fudging firearm and walking calmly towards a battery of cops. They're lucky he wasn't a bigger ******** and nutter than he already was/is. Their job, at that specific moment, was to detain him instantly as a matter of public safety. They'll have known shots had been fired and there were casualties. It was utter, contemptuous negligence. "Numbers and available time" hahahahahahah, you old comic. Paint it any way you want. It was negligence.
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They were a little busy dealing with looters and rioters.

He wasn't shooting real people, he was shooting rioters. The people the police were there to stop, on the other hand, were attacking real people and their property.
 
scaramanga said:
They were a little busy dealing with looters and rioters.

He wasn't shooting real people, he was shooting rioters. The people the police were there to stop, on the other hand, were attacking real people and their property.
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If your intention is to sound like the lovechild of Adrian Durham and Jeremy Kyle, then congratulations, you have achieved all you set out to do.

Let's try this again shall we? Protestors are not rioters. You are fast-becoming Trumpian. You make proclamations which are totally false. Be careful, it will undermine any good points you might have.

The victims of this utter clam that you seem hellbent on defending for some bizarre reason, were "real people". The police fudged up.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...fatal-shooting-during-kenosha-unrest/2330458/
 
thfcsteff said:
If your intention is to sound like the lovechild of Adrian Durham and Jeremy Kyle, then congratulations, you have achieved all you set out to do.

Let's try this again shall we? Protestors are not rioters. You are fast-becoming Trumpian. You make proclamations which are totally false. Be careful, it will undermine any good points you might have.

The victims of this utter clam that you seem hellbent on defending for some bizarre reason, were "real people". The police fudged up.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc...fatal-shooting-during-kenosha-unrest/2330458/
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If anyone in a protest is rioting/looting then they are all to blame.

They're the ones making it possible, the ones creating the environment where looting and rioting can occur.

The kid will probably go to prison for it. I don't particularly care either way.
 
Lets all TRY and look at this in a detached way ( i know this must be hard for some sadly), those who are shooting folks are wrong but so are those who are rioting and setting fire to other folks property. Until we can ALL get our heads around those two FACTS then sadly it will never end.
 
two wrongs etc.

If was living in the US I would be getting out.
My mates in St.Louis is moving to Germany next month. He's ex-army and had enough of Trump and the dangerous attitudes.
 
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