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Harry Winks

It doesn't matter whether they are on the A or B list. We have a cap of 17 non-HG places which is where we have seen players like Foyth excluded before.

I get that, I just got the impression that some other posters thought we had to include four club-trained players over the age of 21 in the EL squad. And more broadly that lots of people think we're close to a crisis (in PL and/or EL) due to not having enough homegrown players. Whereas I think if our only constraint is having no more than 17 non-HG players, we're fine (even if we buy a non-HG right back and striker, assuming we plan to sell Foyth (or Aurier)).
 
I get that, I just got the impression that some other posters thought we had to include four club-trained players over the age of 21 in the EL squad. And more broadly that lots of people think we're close to a crisis (in PL and/or EL) due to not having enough homegrown players. Whereas I think if our only constraint is having no more than 17 non-HG players, we're fine (even if we buy a non-HG right back and striker).

You're right. There is just a limit of 17 non-home grown players. After that you can have 4 club trained players over the age of 21 and 4 association trained players over the age of 21. You can have an unlimited number of u21s.
 
You're right. There is just a limit of 17 non-home grown players. After that you can have 4 club trained players over the age of 21 and 4 association trained players over the age of 21. You can have an unlimited number of u21s.

Or 0 club trained players over the age of 21, if you want (as long as there are 4+ club trained players under the age of 21) - that's the point I'm trying to get at.

E.g. in a previous post you said 'U21 don't count towards homegrown' - but I think the point is that they don't have to, but can if you want them to?
 
Or 0 club trained players over the age of 21, if you want (as long as there are 4+ club trained players under the age of 21) - that's the point I'm trying to get at.

E.g. in a previous post you said 'U21 don't count towards homegrown' - but I think the point is that they don't have to, but can if you want them to?

Absolutely. We could use 17 foreign players and the u16s if we wanted
 
But encouraging youth development to what end, if it's not about the national team? That's what I'm trying to understand.
Do you have a view on why the focus is on being home grown rather than being of English nationality? What's the benefit (to whom) of encouraging PL teams to buy players (of any nationality) that have been developed in England rather than abroad?
To encourage teams to develop and nurture players ideally from their omyoith system or failing that their own country as a means to control the spiraling transfer system.

The slight confusion is between UEFA's initiative and the FA's. UEFA have no intention other than to try and stop the bigger clubs plundering the youth teams of the poorer nations which was very much the path football was taking so they initiated the homegrown plan and that's why their version is slightly tighter than the PL's version.

The PL then latterly implemented a similar system (as did many leagues around Europe) with its own caveats. Each country applying their own version while making sure not to fall foul of EU cross country employment law.

As long as these system do not explicitly exclude players from other EU nations then those plans are legal.
 
To encourage teams to develop and nurture players ideally from their omyoith system or failing that their own country as a means to control the spiraling transfer system.

The slight confusion is between UEFA's initiative and the FA's. UEFA have no intention other than to try and stop the bigger clubs plundering the youth teams of the poorer nations which was very much the path football was taking so they initiated the homegrown plan and that's why their version is slightly tighter than the PL's version.

The PL then latterly implemented a similar system (as did many leagues around Europe) with its own caveats. Each country applying their own version while making sure not to fall foul of EU cross country employment law.

As long as these system do not explicitly exclude players from other EU nations then those plans are legal.

Thanks - totally makes sense from UEFA's point of view - 1) wanting to protect some leagues from being picked apart, and 2) thinking that clubs should have to develop some of their own players. But I still don’t get the exact motivation for the PL’s rules - doesn’t cover point 2, and why should they care about point 1 when they’re more likely to be doing the picking apart?
 
Thanks - totally makes sense from UEFA's point of view - 1) wanting to protect some leagues from being picked apart, and 2) thinking that clubs should have to develop some of their own players. But I still don’t get the exact motivation for the PL’s rules - doesn’t cover point 2, and why should they care about point 1 when they’re more likely to be doing the picking apart?
I think for the FA the motivation is similar, but of course with the added emphasis on English players. Even though a good portion of those HG players aren't English it still encourages the development of young English players.

As they can't place limits on nationality, within the EU/EEC at least, that's probably as good as they could do.

Of course the rules could be tweaked further. More than three years, even younger. But ultimately the clubs won't want regulation that's too strict.

A tweak I would like to see is a limit to the loan system. That has been discussed and might come at some point.
 
So back to Winks ..

- We saw the Winks/PEH pairing, where Winks was actually the deeper of the two in Ipswich game

Thoughts?
 
So back to Winks ..

- We saw the Winks/PEH pairing, where Winks was actually the deeper of the two in Ipswich game

Thoughts?
A lot of surprise as not many thought PEH would be the more attacking in a 2, he wasn't too bad at it either
 
Still early but I think we only need winks or peh, they are too similar and we could do with some flair in the middle of the park. From that perspective I prefer peh already, but he casts a bigger and stronger presence there.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
I think the idea that Hojbjerg is a holding midfielder is a bit misplaced. Pretty much everything I’ve heard from him, Southampton fans and stats suggest he’s more naturally box-to-box.

I had thought that Mourinho might try to repurpose him as more of a holder, but agree it’s interesting that didn’t seem to be the case against Ipswich.
 
So back to Winks ..

- We saw the Winks/PEH pairing, where Winks was actually the deeper of the two in Ipswich game

Thoughts?

Early days yet to be honest and it may change as we go along. I think Jose is using the games to see what different shapes look like ( who expected him to start Gedson at RB) I thought Winks had a decent game to be honest so it will interesting to see how we line up against Everton.
 
Early days yet to be honest and it may change as we go along. I think Jose is using the games to see what different shapes look like ( who expected him to start Gedson at RB) I thought Winks had a decent game to be honest so it will interesting to see how we line up against Everton.

There were a lot of players missing too. I think that the selection and formation were forced a little by that
 
There were a lot of players missing too. I think that the selection and formation were forced a little by that

Good point and i agree. Maybe i am being over optimistic but i do believe Winks could be our Perryman eventually, he has had a lot of injurys and i am hoping we will see the best of him as the season goes along.

He is not a player who immediately catches your eye ( a bit like Perryman) but they are important in any team.
 
Missed the last two friendlies with no explanation and now pulled out of the England squad with no explanation.
I assume its Covid like Ndombele.
 
Missed the last two friendlies with no explanation and now pulled out of the England squad with no explanation.
I assume its Covid like Ndombele.

Saw something the other day that at least 2 more of our players, in addition Ndombele, had tested positive. I think it was from Lilywhite Rose, so a reasonably reliable sauce.
So yes, I assume Winks is one of them.
 
Still no news on what this was.
It must be a "sensitive" injury then like a ruptured banjo string.

The club are refusing to answer questions about any player absences at the moment. Evidently, they are not obliged to in pre-season but they are expected to give answers once the PL is underway.
 
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