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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Well I had been prepared to back Corbyn but I'm out now.

Brexit party for me, which seeing as I subscribe to them makes sense really.

Corby has a lot going for him. But no deal is what would be best for the country. So he has lost one vote.

If I were a remainer I would throw my lot in with the liberals as they have at least been consistent on their views regarding the EU.
 
Labour's shadow cabinet could be set to shift its position on a further Brexit referendum after a meeting on Tuesday.

The party's leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has faced calls to move policy in a more pro-EU direction.

On Monday, trade union leaders backed a referendum on any deal agreed by the Tory government or a no-deal exit from the EU.

They are now calling for Remain to be on the ballot and expect Labour to support that option.

If Labour wins power in a general election, they want a "confirmatory vote" on any new deal negotiated.

However, Labour's stance in a referendum campaign in these circumstances would "depend on the deal negotiated".

Mr Corbyn has previously said he would consult the unions before making any shift in Labour policy.

The shadow cabinet is due to meet at 10:00 BST.

Deputy leader Tom Watson and other leading figures have called for an unambiguously pro-Remain stance amid criticism that confusion over Labour's message contributed to its poor performance in the recent European parliament elections.

But MPs from Leave areas of the UK have warned it could damage the party's election performance.

On Monday, Mr Watson welcomed the agreement by the bosses of Labour's five-biggest affiliated unions as a "step in the right direction", but said his party should not be supporting any form of Brexit.

In a document seen by the BBC, Unite, Unison, the GMB, CWU and Usdaw appear to have moved towards the position advocated by Mr Watson and others by saying that "Remain" should be an option on the ballot paper, and Labour should campaign for it.

In the event of a snap election and a Labour victory, they would expect the new government to negotiate a deal to leave the EU - a position favoured by the Unite union.

However, the deal should be put to a confirmatory vote - a position favoured by Unison and the GMB - and in this scenario "Remain" should also be an option on the ballot paper.

Mr Corbyn has previously said he would be prepared to back a referendum on any Brexit deal put to Parliament.

Mr Corbyn has not guaranteed either to campaign for the UK to stay in the EU or confirmed that this would even be an option on the ballot paper.

The Conservatives said Labour had "no interest in delivering on the referendum result" of 2016.

"Labour promised to respect the Brexit vote, but rerunning the referendum and backing remain would be an attempt to frustrate Brexit and ignore the democratic mandate to deliver it," a spokesman said.

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Analysis by Iain Watson
Brexit is the fourth item on the shadow cabinet agenda, but it's likely to dominate the discussion.

Jeremy Corbyn has been under huge pressure to change position on Brexit following a poor result in the European elections.

The unions' call for the party to campaign to remain if a referendum is foisted on a new Conservative leader stands a good chance of gaining shadow cabinet support - even though some MPs in Leave areas won't like it.

But the unions' position on what happens in the event of snap election could prove more problematic.

If Labour were to win, then the unions say an incoming government should negotiate its own Brexit deal.

But the party's deputy leader Tom Watson has said that not even a Labour deal would be as good as Remain.

And the proposal to put any Labour-brokered agreement to a referendum has also raised eyebrows amongst some MPs.

The prominent leave campaigner, Kate Hoey called it "utterly stupid", while some anti-Brexit Labour politicians want guarantees that they could campaign against their own party's deal without being suspended or expelled.
Still a few if/then statements in there and of course the WA will not be renegotiated. Not exactly conclusive but it's something.
 
Populism, pure and simple. It's the same mechanism by which Donald Trump isn't laughed off of the ticket in the US.

Corbyn gets the anti-establishment vote because he's seen as being outside the system. Problem is, the system has evolved because it works and it (mainly) keeps the cranks out.
Voting patterns only matter when they support you then? I can put a valid response to your point but you will disregard it or move the goal posts again so wont bother.
 
Voting patterns only matter when they support you then? I can put a valid response to your point but you will disregard it or move the goal posts again so wont bother.
I don't think anyone seriously expects populism to be a longer term voting trend in politics - it's just a protest. The trend is not towards Corbyn and communism, it's away from the establishment - look at the recent opinion polls where Corbyn rates even lower than Hunt and Johnson.

I have no interest in moving the goalposts. You implied that there was causation between Corbyn being beholden to the trades unions and an increase in Labour votes. I reject that suggestion.
 
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I don't think anyone seriously expects populism to be a longer term voting trend in politics - it's just a protest. The trend is not towards Corbyn and communism, it's away from the establishment - look at the recent opinion polls where Corbyn rates even lower than Hunt and Johnson.

I have no interest in moving the goalposts. You implied that there was causation between Corbyn being beholden to the trades unions and an increase in Labour votes. I reject that suggestion.

You used voting behavior as an indicator that Unions are no longer relevant and then said it was not an indicator when it didn't support your point.
 
Well I had been prepared to back Corbyn but I'm out now.

Brexit party for me, which seeing as I subscribe to them makes sense really.

Corby has a lot going for him. But no deal is what would be best for the country. So he has lost one vote.

If I were a remainer I would throw my lot in with the liberals as they have at least been consistent on their views regarding the EU.

Ha, ha, like you were ever going to vote Labour anyway. brick, did anybody see this coming? :)
 
I don't think anyone seriously expects populism to be a longer term voting trend in politics - it's just a protest. The trend is not towards Corbyn and communism, it's away from the establishment - look at the recent opinion polls where Corbyn rates even lower than Hunt and Johnson.

I have no interest in moving the goalposts. You implied that there was causation between Corbyn being beholden to the trades unions and an increase in Labour votes. I reject that suggestion.

Oh, so the trend is towards Clown Shoe Johnson and fascism then? Alrighty!
 
You used voting behavior as an indicator that Unions are no longer relevant and then said it was not an indicator when it didn't support your point.
I used a long term trend in voting (2 generations). interim fluctuations can mean absolutely anything.
 
Busy day in British politics. How slow is Corbyn? Now he's almost made Labour a remain party. He could have nipped the anti-semitism allegations in the bud. He didn't. Lord Triesman and Margret Hodge are not idiots or attention seekers. If they identify anti-semitism in Labour, then I respect them. They maybe exaggerating the issue. But any racism, no matter how trivial it appears on the surface, has to be called out.

Then Boris is a Hunt. Who won? Does anyone care? Does Hunt actually want the job? He's probably planning to be the one who picks up the pieces post Boris. That's my guess.
 
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Busy day in British politics. How slow is Corbyn? Now he's almost made Labour a remain party. He could have nipped the anti-semitism allegations in the bud. He didn't. Lord Triesman and Margret Hodge are not idiots or attention seekers. If they identify anti-semitism in Labour, then I respect them. They maybe exaggerating the issue. But any racism, no matter how trivial it appears on the surface, has to be called out.

Then Boris is a Hunt. Who won? Does anyone care? Does Hunt actually want the job? He's probably planning to be the one who picks up the pieces post Boris. That's my guess.
Panorama tonight could (and should) be the end of those dangerous, anti-semitic cranks in charge of that brickshow.
 
To be fair, Hunt has far more Draconian views than Johnson.

Johnson is a man of principle - the principle that makes him PM.

Hunt is a man of principles - just most of those principles are utterly abhorrent.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11859/jeremy_hunt/south_west_surrey/votes

Nothing much to argue about there. The snooper's charter and the smoking ban are straight out of the lefty playbook, but I'm not sure you'll find many people voting against them.
 
Can you show that there is cause and effect? Nope so your trend showed diddly.
I don't think anyone serious would deny a general shift away from those communist policies of the 70s and Corbyn. It would take more than a blip for a couple of years to convince me that trend has reversed.
 
I don't think anyone serious would deny a general shift away from those communist policies of the 70s and Corbyn. It would take more than a blip for a couple of years to convince me that trend has reversed.


And all for the fascism of Boris and the Tories hey. I can keep this up for as long as you can. :)
 
If they are so weak and irrelevant as you claim, why do you bang on about them all the time...more Double Think...Oh the humanity ..please stop!
Most forms of pure evil are rare in the modern world - society has evolved past most of them. Doesn't make them any less evil.
 
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