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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

the dza said:
The only positive I can see from him becoming the next PM (which he surely will) is that he will have to take full responsiblity for Brexit. He thoroughly deserves the whole mess.

And I'm not a big Owen Jones fan, but you are right, it is a fair point. Consider the pelters that Gove is getting for doing coke 20 years ago, pales in comparison to Johnson's misdeeds. And I can't stand him either, but he is a much better candidate for PM than Johnson. Which might be an indictment of the current Tory Party as much as anything else.
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I just cant imagine people would put him in that position.

If he becomes PM then the whole system needs tearing down.

Gutter Boy said:
If you fear social conservatism (which I do too), your fears are better placed on someone more competent.

Johnson is a Trump. And Trump is fine because he's not one of the competent dead eye fudgers like Paul Ryan.

Things like this are important to pay attention to: https://righttolife.org.uk/news/tory-leadership-candidates-abortion-2019/
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I dont fear any particular ideology, I do fear a man who has shown he will change the course of history just to service his own ego. Just as I fear a man who would do that and then go on to display such a complete lack of intelligence, sense, respect...

He is dangerous.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I just cant imagine people would put him in that position.

If he becomes PM then the whole system needs tearing down.
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Ahem the only reason Boris has a realistic shot at PM is because of those who believed the ‘whole system needs tearing down’. Just like No Deal was never on the table Boris was a joke who’d never run the party or nation.

Now with Farage and Brexit he is the ‘solution’!

Careful what you wish for.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I just cant imagine people would put him in that position.

If he becomes PM then the whole system needs tearing down.




I dont fear any particular ideology, I do fear a man who has shown he will change the course of history just to service his own ego. Just as I fear a man who would do that and then go on to display such a complete lack of intelligence, sense, respect...

He is dangerous.
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Dirt shows best in the light. He won't last 2 months as PM before a scandal brings him down. It will be as easy as destroying the BNP by simply giving them a chair on Question Time one week
 
the dza said:
If he gets to the last two (which seems likely) then he is overwhelmingly the favourite amongst Tory members whose votes will decide whether he becomes leader (and by extension, PM).

Personally, I think it should be that if MPs resign the whip it should automatically trigger a by-election, and if the governing party changes leader, it should automatically trigger a General Election. Sadly, these aren't the rules.

On Johnson, it's interesting that his advisors figure he is such a gaffe prone qunt, their strategy is to keep him away from TV interviews and high profile campaigning.
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I absolutely agree with the first.

But with the second, we don't live in a presidential country. We elect a manifesto and a local MP - that's it. A prime minister is just what it says - the first of equals. They only get one vote out of 650, the same as anyone else
 
the dza said:
If he gets to the last two (which seems likely) then he is overwhelmingly the favourite amongst Tory members whose votes will decide whether he becomes leader (and by extension, PM).

Personally, I think it should be that if MPs resign the whip it should automatically trigger a by-election, and if the governing party changes leader, it should automatically trigger a General Election. Sadly, these aren't the rules.

On Johnson, it's interesting that his advisors figure he is such a gaffe prone qunt, their strategy is to keep him away from TV interviews and high profile campaigning.
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As with GB, I agree with the first but absolutely no the second. We dont vote for a PM, we vote for a party and a manifesto.

It defies belief that anyone who is serious about anything would look at Boris as a solution, as a leader, a figurehead - the public fact of a party....

...its unbelievable people could go for it.

That said, look at Trump....


Gutter Boy said:
Dirt shows best in the light. He won't last 2 months as PM before a scandal brings him down. It will be as easy as destroying the BNP by simply giving them a chair on Question Time one week
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As I said - look at Trump. Boris would be ours, and I suspect just as hard to remove.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
As with GB, I agree with the first but absolutely no the second. We dont vote for a PM, we vote for a party and a manifesto.

It defies belief that anyone who is serious about anything would look at Boris as a solution, as a leader, a figurehead - the public fact of a party....

...its unbelievable people could go for it.

That said, look at Trump....




As I said - look at Trump. Boris would be ours, and I suspect just as hard to remove.
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A simple vote of no confidence brings ours down. All it needs is for something like 20 of his own party to vote against him.
 
And how did that go last time?

There isnt enough talent in the Tory party to offer a credible alternative.

Boris would Trump it up big time, normalise insane and bigoted comments to the point where people just accept it.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
And how did that go last time?

There isnt enough talent in the Tory party to offer a credible alternative.

Boris would Trump it up big time, normalise insane and bigoted comments to the point where people just accept it.
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May has been crap, not dangerous. I do have enough faith in the integrity of most MPs to bring down one of their own who crosses certain decency lines.
 
I didnt say she was dangerous, only that Boris would be.

The point was - May was crap, a no confidence vote was made, and she is still there. So your "simple vote of no confidence brings ours down" line really isnt as absolute as you might hope.
 
Interesting that Mordaunt has just said she's not standing, and is backing Hunt instead. The only Brexiteer in cabinet not backing Johnson
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I didnt say she was dangerous, only that Boris would be.

The point was - May was crap, a no confidence vote was made, and she is still there. So your "simple vote of no confidence brings ours down" line really isnt as absolute as you might hope.
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I just meant the mechanism is there to prevent excesses. Whereas you need impeachment to bring down a president.
 
the dza said:
I know the technicalities, but in reality the leader is a big factor for many people when they cast their vote.
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That's their lack of education then, and not a reason to debase a perfectly good system into a reality tv style personality contest
 
SpurMeUp said:
Ahem the only reason Boris has a realistic shot at PM is because of those who believed the ‘whole system needs tearing down’. Just like No Deal was never on the table Boris was a joke who’d never run the party or nation.

Now with Farage and Brexit he is the ‘solution’!

Careful what you wish for.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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As horrible as it is, Johnson is the next step in rearranging the system (not bringing it down - too apocalyptic).
We have tried the democratic version of taking back control and sovereignty.
Now it's time to try the celebrity version. Let's not forget that without HIGNFY he would be just another backbenchers with silly hair.
As soon as he became a caricature he gained ultimate power
 
Gutter Boy said:
Interesting that Mordaunt has just said she's not standing, and is backing Hunt instead. The only Brexiteer in cabinet not backing Johnson
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Realistically him and Hanrooster are the only people who would probably build something in the long term that could possibly lead to a GE win but the others are just obsessed with Brexit so will only focus on that.

Weird thing about Boris is that when he was mayor he was actually really popular in what is a mainly Labour city, managed to be fairly liberal and business friendly but ever since the referendum he's completely changed.
 
DTA said:
Conspiracy exists but not in the places you are looking.

If you want to to know why so many refugees AND immigrants are coming in to Europe, you need to look at the state of their countries, war torn and poor. It's for a safer more prosperous future for themselves and families... Not to irradicate the 'white race' (what the fudge is the 'white race' anyway? where do you as a Greek (if I remember correctly) fit into this so called 'whiteness'?
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I had an hour, so I thought I'd have a little fun and respond to @AuroRaman 's inane BuzzFeed piece which pushes that only the whites of christian heritage are inherently evil. I suspect you think much the same and think rich powerful Jews are incapable of such vengeful desires for the European pogroms and the mass killings during the second world war. All the evidence you need that they don't have vengeful desires are to be found in the kill ratio in their response to a terrorist attack on their nation.

In reply to the rest of your post , long winded I know, but....

I have been against military interventions in Muslim countries as far back as my school days, arguing against my history teacher's defence of the British intervention in the Suez ... My heart sank when the Gulf War 1 happened, likewise when the 911 and the subsequent invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq in the early noughties ..
In 2003 I had time off work due to a leg injury and during my recuperation, for the first time I sat at a computer to vent my feelings on the subject...I did this through my then AOL and ATT accounts, where there were a hive of activity on the political forums.. I opposed both the jingoists, and also the Liberals with their pitfall regime change arguments on humanitarian grounds. For my opposition on the forums, I received numerous death threats via my email. AOL could not trace who had sent them so I decided not to cause anymore more upset to the wife and stopped my postings - family comes first and all that. Although Geo-politics is the great unsolved puzzle, my views are instinctively and will always be against military interventions.

I warned back then, of the repercussions of these regime changing adventures, some serious blowback in the shape of Muslim terrorism in Europe and that it would lead to mass migrations of people... I'm not the idiot that you and your mates on here think I am, perhaps an idiot, but not your idiot as I do understand the survival instinct the human species!

"It should be the priority of every man to his ensure his living space is free from existential threats so that his woman can give birth to his offspring in safety." ....It's such a simple, obvious statement, but so profoundly important..

I thought about writing much of the remaining part of my post, into the D Day Remembrance thread but then, I thought perhaps one or two of the usual suspects would see it as me tinkling on the thread...
Auroman asked what I thought were a good question, regarding ancestry.

Having spent many years in London's East End areas I got to know many English people who have had no problem tracing back their family history dating back generations, 19th century and earlier!... At the height of the British Empire, Queen Victoria times, many of these people's ancestors were still ravaged by poverty, lived in tenements, slept 10 to a room, shared family shoes, children only able to step outdoors barefooted when the warmer climes came.. Yet their ancestors, voluntarily enlisted in the Great War and then thereafter were forcibly conscripted as the body count rose and the queues to voluntarily enlist shortened. Their ancestors also fought in the Second World War, many did not return and survivors were maimed both physically and mentally for life.. I recall being told of one cheery old boy who lived at the end of my road who were always a stop and chat type and who would never complain about anything.. I learnt from another neighbour, how in one night he'd lost numerous numbers of family and extended family members due to the aerial bombing. Many of those East End people have similar stories of those lost and not returning..Local libraries and town halls in the East End have plaques with large lists honouring the fallen, perhaps the longest lists of anywhere around the country. These people were mostly good people and yes sure, some not so good, but in the main they were good people who had seen tough times. These people were loyal to their country and they did not want much in return but a job, an apprenticeship for their teenage children, and for their communities to stay in tact with affordable housing so that they could see their children's children living locally...That's all gone now and their areas are now of Middle East appearance, with a sprinkling of gentefried professional hipster. Those old people are largely gone now but of those that remain, have feelings of betrayal, their communities gone. They see it as their country is no longer their country and that they were never asked.
The problem as I see it, is that the Leftists seem to only view it from the viewpoint of the migrants and see any unease of the natives as nothing but inherently evil.

I'm now warning of the dire consequences of the swift demographic changes. There is little assimilation with mass swift change, there is only balkanisation and resentment. IMO this has lead to a less European centric traditional and fair society, leading to authoritarian larger government, something our leaders are quite happy to oversee.

Finally in reply to your; "what the fudge is the 'white race' anyway"?

Your disdain for whites who do not share your leftist world view is evident....You come across as someone who's uncomfortable with whites being the majority in countries that they can call their own. Perhaps, like another poster who regularly posts on this forum, you want whites wiped out?
 
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