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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Gutter Boy said:
So Gavin Williamson - undisputed a roosterroach of the highest order.

However, should he be receiving some credit for whistleblowing that the government was planning to undermine national security and damage relations with our key intelligence partners, for the sake of a few brown envelopes of yuan?
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That aside, sounds to me like May just shot herself in the foot - he was a big ally of hers and someone she could rely on.
 
monkeybarry said:
Remind yourself of that when you can't breathe.
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See that would be you wrongly assuming I don't agree with the sentiment, I purely don't agree with how its being delivered.

The over privileged business class flying oiks telling people what to do whilst stopping them doing their day to day.....do one
 
Grays_1890 said:
See that would be you wrongly assuming I don't agree with the sentiment, I purely don't agree with how its being delivered.

The over privileged business class flying oiks telling people what to do whilst stopping them doing their day to day.....do one
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Absolutely agree. I stand by everyone's right to protest but if they inconvenience me then they and their cause can fudge off.
 
Grays_1890 said:
See that would be you wrongly assuming I don't agree with the sentiment, I purely don't agree with how its being delivered.

The over privileged business class flying oiks telling people what to do whilst stopping them doing their day to day.....do one
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Yeah I'm pretty sure there are fudge all of those.

I'm all for the protests and I think there should more of them . The more inconvenience the better.
 
Rorschach said:
Yeah I'm pretty sure there are fudge all of those.

I'm all for the protests and I think there should more of them . The more inconvenience the better.
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I attended some. And you are correct. The media love to whip up false coverage and the uninformed love to lap it up.

Protests are inconvenient, but if someone is taking a stand on my behalf then rock the fudge on.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
Rorschach said:
Yeah I'm pretty sure there are fudge all of those.

I'm all for the protests and I think there should more of them . The more inconvenience the better.
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Its not the masses its the ones these lot look up to who do it and they lap it up which is funny really. Emma Thompson, Bono and the Boom Town Rate being examples/

Swamp rats who can afford to take weeks off because they are trust fund babies can fudge off
 
Grays_1890 said:
Its not the masses its the ones these lot look up to who do it and they lap it up which is funny really. Emma Thompson, Bono and the Boom Town Rate being examples/

Swamp rats who can afford to take weeks off because they are trust fund babies can fudge off
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So let me try and figure out your point. These Swamps rats' annoy you and you have no time for them, but the environmental movement is something you agree with as long as it doesn't inconvenience you.
 
Grays_1890 said:
See that would be you wrongly assuming I don't agree with the sentiment, I purely don't agree with how its being delivered.

The over privileged business class flying oiks telling people what to do whilst stopping them doing their day to day.....do one
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What If that person is aware of their impact and has adjusted their lifestyle to offset their carbon emissions?
Thus still being an active and wealthy part of society and helping the environment?

Wealth doesn't dilute the need for action.

As far as people complaining about "inconvenience" - have a look around the world and then talk about inconvenience and privilege. One of the biggest convenience's we currently have in the UK - we are really lucky our weather is temperate.

And you know what, so what if you had a little bit of an inconvenience for two weeks of your commute (and it really was just a tiny inconvenience - nothing to bitch about), change happens with inconvenience somewhere, that's how it works. But it's bigger than you and your commute. If you want to talk privilege, thinking your commute is more important than the impact onlf global change on everyone (especially people with fudge all) is privilege.
 
People don't need to change their habits - that's the wrong target

It's the companies making too much money from the dependencies of the current system that need to be fought

A few big moves could get us to Uruguay status of greenness in a few years

- building 3 or 4 fold our current offshore wind capacity
- stamp duty waiver for houses sold with solar panels & batteries
- immediate ban on the sale of new diesel cars
- 100% tax on all non- biodegradable packaging

That's the sort of steps needed to solve this - not stopping people travelling or using energy
 
I don't think many people would disagree that we should be doing more but as ever the details are lacking, going neutral by 2025 just isn't feasible whatever people say. No one has really spelled out what going carbon neutral by 2050 means for everyone as well, the report released yesterday just mentions reductions in energy consumption, use of electricity over gas and oil, changes in diet and less land available for farming.

As the phrase seems to be recently people don't want to make themselves poorer and I don't see how this can be done without seriously affecting peoples lives financially, electric heating is 3 times the price of gas for instance. I read lots of talk of hydrogen when the people suggesting it seem to forget it's produced via the use of gas and extracting it from water isn't possible at the scale required (or not at present anyway).

I wouldn't mind having an electric car but there's no point getting one if there's nowhere to charge it, they need to bring in massive infrastructure changes to achieve this.
 
Gutter Boy said:
People don't need to change their habits - that's the wrong target

It's the companies making too much money from the dependencies of the current system that need to be fought

A few big moves could get us to Uruguay status of greenness in a few years

- building 3 or 4 fold our current offshore wind capacity
- stamp duty waiver for houses sold with solar panels & batteries
- immediate ban on the sale of new diesel cars
- 400% tax on all non- biodegradable packaging

That's the sort of steps needed to solve this - not stopping people traveling or using energy
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Well, it's both really but you are correct with regards to the scope of the problem. Sure people need to change their habits, but to be frank that will hardly make much of difference now. A catastrophic amount of climate change is already locked in and cannot be reversed in our generation. Now is only about efforts to mitigate how bad it will get.

Those 4 options you mention are all noble and laudable ideas but to me only show the real problem. The message even still is being diluted to make it palatable. These 4 ideas you list show the pointless incrementalism message is only now taking hold, and a lot of the ideas gaining traction now while welcome are actually somewhat inconsequential in comparison to the perilous position we find ourselves in. This is where we should have been 10 years ago. We've long passed the point where lifestyle changes will make much of a difference, through every little helps of course. In my opinion, we should be enforcing a policy that all economic activity should be carbon neutral in whatever way possible. If you produce carbon, you clean it up or pay to clean it up with no exceptions. This coupled with aggressive carbon sequestration and possibly climate engineering is the conversations we should be having. I'm not optimistic even though the climate debate now seems to be front and center, finally.

Happy Friday :)
 
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monkeybarry said:
What If that person is aware of their impact and has adjusted their lifestyle to offset their carbon emissions?
Thus still being an active and wealthy part of society and helping the environment?

Wealth doesn't dilute the need for action.

As far as people complaining about "inconvenience" - have a look around the world and then talk about inconvenience and privilege. One of the biggest convenience's we currently have in the UK - we are really lucky our weather is temperate.

And you know what, so what if you had a little bit of an inconvenience for two weeks of your commute (and it really was just a tiny inconvenience - nothing to bitch about), change happens with inconvenience somewhere, that's how it works. But it's bigger than you and your commute. If you want to talk privilege, thinking your commute is more important than the impact onlf global change on everyone (especially people with fudge all) is privilege.
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Privilege to want to walk down the street without having someone scream in your face privilege? Not really is it, you will compare it to someone else in some third world country but thats circumstance if you compare me versus them. three times in 5 days I was stopped in random places by people, one on the Overground who started lecturing me on a subject I am already pretty knowledgeable on and then started to scream in my face when I was not interested in engaging because I didnt know the person from adam.

Lovely lot
 
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