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Summer 2018 transfer thread

ShipOfGoldblum said:
Which would mean no promotion or relegation. It’s a horrid model.
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Fair, but there are ways to mitigate that and allow for a system of relegation/promotion on longer timescales. As it is, the promotion/relegation dynamic inherently dooms most clubs involved in it to perpetual minnow status anyway, unless they're Leicester. So is it any fairer?
 
DubaiSpur said:
There's no point to it, is all. There's nothing moral about what we do, and no reason to do it.

If we took care of the poorest-paid at our club, if we took care of our community, if we allowed young people and folks down on their luck to attend our games, if we were genuinely *fan-owned* - or at least had significant fan ownership - then this sort of self-imposed austerity model is justifiable, and moral.

In fact, if we were fan-owned and were that involved in our community, I would defend it as the only way we could possibly be run.

But we're not - we're just a useful asset for a billionaire in the Bahamas who refuses to pay tax and made his money shorting the pound on Black Wednesday, hurting the UK in the process. And worse yet, he's a billionaire who puts no money into his asset - the most singularly useless, worthless thing in football, the sort of contradictory owner only Spurs could have found.

And this billionaire has, as his public face, Levy - who runs the club in an above-average fashion, to be fair, but does little to make this ownership model particularly *moral* or inherently appealing. And he charges the highest ticket prices in the league for a summer window with absolutely no on-pitch ambition and no transfers, to boot.

So what's the point?

Football has gone the way of the billionaire owner - and the mercenary player. Just the way the game is these days. The real moral standing, the real 'glory', would come in breaking from the *ownership* model, not from the transfers or wages model.



I'd like that too, tbh. I hope that ,in the future, English football moves towards the ironically socialist American model. It would mean a fairer chance for every club. :)
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Yeah, I guess you're right, I'm just sort of fooling myself thinking we're somehow doing the "honorable" thing here. At least it still works as some sort of argument whenever I discuss football with fans of other clubs. But sadly, you're right, of course.

ShipOfGoldblum said:
Which would mean no promotion or relegation. It’s a horrid model.
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Not necessarily. I'm sure you could figure out some sort of model that would allow for relegations and promotions. Probably not going to happen anytime soon anyway, though.
 
Daisuk said:
Yeah, I guess you're right, I'm just sort of fooling myself thinking we're somehow doing the "honorable" thing here. At least it still works as some sort of argument whenever I discuss football with fans of other clubs. But sadly, you're right, of course.
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There's just little point now, mate. We have a game and a system today where often underpaid people like, nurses, firemen, policemen, doctors and community workers, who deal with the worst parts of our society... part with thousands to watch sulky multi-millionaires angling for pay rises and billionaires profiting from the exercise.

Where fans were long ago stripped of their stakes and sense of ownership of the clubs they loved (both physically and by market forces), and where a club that pays 100m for a gourmet cheese room for Canary Wharf yuppies won't pay a living wage to the folks from their community struggling to get by.

What morality the game had died a long time ago. It's a purely market-driven exercise now, and any means are justified to get ahead - after all, business is amoral.

I love football, I love THFC, and I always will. You do too, and neither of us can help it, because that's the way football works - your club stays with you through marriages, houses, jobs and circumstances. But I don't pretend that what we are now is inherently moral in any way.

I've learned to enjoy the little things - Kane running out for his boyhood club, Winksy and KWP beaming with happiness when they score a goal, a group of polite, likeable lads just getting on with their jobs, because they're not responsible for the evolution of the game they play in.

Being a part of something with my fellow fans, knowing they're as irretrievably suckered as I am, and knowing that they care, too - despite our disagreements. Despite the fact that people usually don't like my positions here, I've only ever blocked one person, and that is likely to stay that way.

And cheering when we score, and descending into black despair when we lose, and all the rest of it.

I love those things, and I'm even learning to let go of my ambitions for us, because expecting Levy to match them is useless. I just don't care about the broader arguments about morality - because truth be told, there hasn't been any for a long time.
 
@DubaiSpur 3 things on what you were saying there:

There is a reason we do things the way we do. It isn’t pointless. It’s to keep us on a sound footing so that we are well positioned to keep progressing in a long term, sustainable way. So many teams have taken the risks to move up a level, with the only way of sustaining that being to keep succeeding, and when they fail, they move off the upward curve and on to the downward one. The reason for the stadium is so our baseline of investment we can make that isn’t contingent on success (eg CL football and PL prize money) can be higher. Therefore, we’ll have more chance of sustaining that each season.

Secondly, stepping up or squad in terms of quality now isn’t easy, but it would be possible if we didn’t factor current affordability into it. For instance, I think if we had Emirates Marketing Project money, but the exact same squad as we do now, I think we would have signed Zaha. But we probably would have needed to go to 70M at least to do it. So then the decision has to be, based on what our current investment level not contingent on success is, we can probably always afford to spend to keep us competitive in this new top 6 that has developed. And I’m sure we could afford to spend to make a push to win the league on one season or another, but it might risk the platform to keep us up where we are in subsequent seasons. We want to keep on the upward curve rather than the downward one. So the question is then, does Zaha definitely push us up another level, to make us a consistently top 2 side? Does he definitely do that for 70/80M? When we have Son, Moura, Lamela? I don’t think he does. But, does spending 70/80M when we couldn’t afford to keep doing that risk the financial platform we have gotten ourselves on to?

So I think you are partly right. I don’t think Levy wants to risk pushing for the title on the odd season right now. I think he’d rather we be a sustainable top 6 team in this climate. But if say Everton or Wolves threatened our spot, I think we would spend to make sure we didn’t fall if the Manager thought we needed to. Because they clearly will sell us, and the best chance of a return they want is to position the club as ripe for a new owner to come in and take us on the final step of the journey, rather than seeing us yoyo between 3rd, 8th, 3rd, 10th, 8th, 5th for example. They’ll get more value if we are consistently pushing our level, rather than if we are showing inconsistency. (Good finances will also do that, and just like good finances in business, an accountant won’t want to be lumpy accounts one month to the next, a buyer won’t want to see lumpy finishes from one season to the next). If we get our revenues to the point we can spend more under their ownership without it being contingent on success, I think they will do. But they are going to try and keep us in the upward curve rather than the downward.

Thirdly, you made a comment that Poch would clear on Levy’s penny pinching. Which assumes he isn’t just as bought in to the idea of not spending as Levy is. I think he is - and if he really thought Grealish was going to be a difference maker, we would have pushed for it more. I just find it interesting that Poch seems insulated from a few things most fans don’t seem to like, when he is just as likely to be the reason they are happening.
 
DubaiSpur said:
There's just little point now, mate. We have a game and a system today where often underpaid people like, nurses, firemen, policemen, doctors and community workers, who deal with the worst parts of our society... part with thousands to watch sulky multi-millionaires angling for pay rises and billionaires profiting from the exercise.

Where fans were long ago stripped of their stakes and sense of ownership of the clubs they loved (both physically and by market forces), and where a club that pays 100m for a gourmet cheese room for Canary Wharf yuppies won't pay a living wage to the folks from their community struggling to get by.

What morality the game had died a long time ago. It's a purely market-driven exercise now, and any means are justified to get ahead - after all, business is amoral.

I love football, I love THFC, and I always will. You do too, and neither of us can help it, because that's the way football works - your club stays with you through marriages, houses, jobs and circumstances. But I don't pretend that what we are now is inherently moral in any way.

I've learned to enjoy the little things - Kane running out for his boyhood club, Winksy and KWP beaming with happiness when they score a goal, a group of polite, likeable lads just getting on with their jobs, because they're not responsible for the evolution of the game they play in.

Being a part of something with my fellow fans, knowing they're as irretrievably suckered as I am, and knowing that they care, too - despite our disagreements. Despite the fact that people usually don't like my positions here, I've only ever blocked one person, and that is likely to stay that way.

And cheering when we score, and descending into black despair when we lose, and all the rest of it.

I love those things, and I'm even learning to let go of my ambitions for us, because expecting Levy to match them is useless. I just don't care about the broader arguments about morality - because truth be told, there hasn't been any for a long time.
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Some really good points here to be fair.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
@DubaiSpur 3 things on what you were saying there:

There is a reason we do things the way we do. It isn’t pointless. It’s to keep us on a sound footing so that we are well positioned to keep progressing in a long term, sustainable way. So many teams have taken the risks to move up a level, with the only way of sustaining that being to keep succeeding, and when they fail, they move off the upward curve and on to the downward one. The reason for the stadium is so our baseline of investment we can make that isn’t contingent on success (eg CL football and PL prize money) can be higher. Therefore, we’ll have more chance of sustaining that each season.

Secondly, stepping up or squad in terms of quality now isn’t easy, but it would be possible if we didn’t factor current affordability into it. For instance, I think if we had Emirates Marketing Project money, but the exact same squad as we do now, I think we would have signed Zaha. But we probably would have needed to go to 70M at least to do it. So then the decision has to be, based on what our current investment level not contingent on success is, we can probably always afford to spend to keep us competitive in this new top 6 that has developed. And I’m sure we could afford to spend to make a push to win the league on one season or another, but it might risk the platform to keep us up where we are in subsequent seasons. We want to keep on the upward curve rather than the downward one. So the question is then, does Zaha definitely push us up another level, to make us a consistently top 2 side? Does he definitely do that for 70/80M? When we have Son, Moura, Lamela? I don’t think he does. But, does spending 70/80M when we couldn’t afford to keep doing that risk the financial platform we have gotten ourselves on to?

So I think you are partly right. I don’t think Levy wants to risk pushing for the title on the odd season right now. I think he’d rather we be a sustainable top 6 team in this climate. But if say Everton or Wolves threatened our spot, I think we would spend to make sure we didn’t fall if the Manager thought we needed to. Because they clearly will sell us, and the best chance of a return they want is to position the club as ripe for a new owner to come in and take us on the final step of the journey, rather than seeing us yoyo between 3rd, 8th, 3rd, 10th, 8th, 5th for example. They’ll get more value if we are consistently pushing our level, rather than if we are showing inconsistency. (Good finances will also do that, and just like good finances in business, an accountant won’t want to be lumpy accounts one month to the next, a buyer won’t want to see lumpy finishes from one season to the next). If we get our revenues to the point we can spend more under their ownership without it being contingent on success, I think they will do. But they are going to try and keep us in the upward curve rather than the downward.

Thirdly, you made a comment that Poch would clear on Levy’s penny pinching. Which assumes he isn’t just as bought in to the idea of not spending as Levy is. I think he is - and if he really thought Grealish was going to be a difference maker, we would have pushed for it more. I just find it interesting that Poch seems insulated from a few things most fans don’t seem to like, when he is just as likely to be the reason they are happening.
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I think you've made some good points, but I disagree with some as well. I'll get to them tomorrow - I'm only a bit confused on what that has to do with my stance on it not being a particularly 'moral' route to take, is all. :p
 
N'Zonzi has been signed by Roma for £27 million.

Quite an incredible deal really for, imo, one of the best cms in La Liga for the past season or 2 and one I feel we may perhaps have looked at but oh well. Interested to see how he does.
 
Hootnow said:
N'Zonzi has been signed by Roma for £27 million.

Quite an incredible deal really for, imo, one of the best cms in La Liga for the past season or 2 and one I feel we may perhaps have looked at but oh well. Interested to see how he does.
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WOW! How why what where when which idiot decided not to buy him for Spurs?
 
Could have made a cheeky offer for Marchisio (just left Juventus after 25 years). Probably only interested in a mega payday though.
 
mjc23 said:
Apparently Premier League teams can't sign free agents out of the window anymore.
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Don't think you ever could. They could train with you, like Stephen Appiah did with us for a while in spring 2009, but you can't register players until the next window opens
 
It used to be that free agents could be signed by a club at any time during the season, if they had been released by their previous club before the end of the transfer window, is this still not the case?
 
NoLimits01 said:
It used to be that free agents could be signed by a club at any time during the season, if they had been released by their previous club before the end of the transfer window, is this still not the case?
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Possibly. But you still can't register them to play until the next window, even if you haven't used all 25 squad places.

So it might work for getting free agents in ahead of any competition, but not to boost your squad in the short term
 
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