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TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR NEW STADIUM BUILD - Full plans submitted copy on Haringey Council Website 4th Nov (LINK)
Last post 03-09-2010, 8:28 by ArcspacE. 807 replies.
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05-01-2009, 10:33 |
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Finney Is Back:
Currently Emirates only pay £3m a year for the stadium sponsorship and £6.875m per year for the shirt sponsorship.
Am I the only one who thinks that is seriously low? Isnt our Mansion deal about £8m a year and thats just for the shirt sponsorship?! You can pretty well guarantee Levy will get a damn sight more for a combined stadium/shirt deal
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05-01-2009, 14:43 |
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05-02-2009, 0:27 |
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jimmyb
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Joined on 05-23-2007
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http://www.business24-7.ae/articles/2009/5/pages/01052009/05022009_7d8fbbe7055e480b829afdbc9dd20048.aspx
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Tottenham offer Gulf Capital gains
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The new Spurs stadium will be the only major development in London in the next 10 years, says Barber, and the rights to its name are available to purchase. | |
Club officials from Tottenham Hotspur will return to the region in the coming weeks with their custom-made Arabic business cards and translated brochures.
And while the calligraphy may be incomprehensible to the travelling delegation, the message that such concerted efforts convey to prospective partners is explicit.
Spurs have turned on the charm offensive as they search for a Middle Eastern backer to purchase the naming rights to the club's new £390m (Dh2.1 bn) stadium.
The Northumberland Development Project – which, as well as featuring a 58,000-seat stadium, also includes shops, restaurants, residential properties and a hotel – will be built on a site adjacent to the North London club's current home, White Hart Lane.
Executive Director Paul Barber led the delegation to Bahrain, Qatar and the UAE last week and will likely visit again later this month after attracting "phenomenal interest" from several wealthy Middle Eastern companies.
But Spurs' sojourn was not simply to send out feelers; the club is also keen to assess the state of play in the Gulf, says Barber.
"We have been making a lot of time to meet people in the region," he tells Emirates Business, shortly before speaking with representatives from Dubai-based Al Ahly Football Club.
"We are very conscious of not walking into a country and expecting people to roll over and write nice, big cheques because we are a Premier League club. As nice as that would be, we are very realistic and know that's not how business is done here.
"We're not naïve. We will run down many blind alleys because that's the nature of any kind of business transaction of this size."
The scale of the deal is likely to vary depending on the company's industry and its proposed means of funding the project. But with Spurs also looking for a shirt sponsor, an agreement similar in structure to that of rivals Arsenal could be a posssibility.
Tottenham's North London neighbours signed a 15-year contract with Emirates in 2004, with the Dubai-based airline's £100m outlay securing the naming rights to the club's new stadium, as well as seeing their brand emblazoned across the Arsenal shirt for eight years.
In a recent brand awareness research project, the carrier came out as the No1 sports sponsoring airline in 13 of the 23 countries surveyed.
Boutros Boutros, Emirates' Divisional Senior Vice President, Corporate Communications, says part of that perception is undoubtedly down to the airline's relationship with the London club.
"There is no doubt that the partnership with Arsenal has helped us in some way to become established as a global brand," says Boutros.
"I am sure the branding of the Emirates Stadium, along with all of our other promotional and advertising activities, helps to increase awareness and drive sales."
Boutros adds that, as well as having seen very healthy bookings from the UK, ongoing research into the impact the stadium naming rights deal is worth shows a yearly return of more than £30m in advertising value.
Ironically, Tottenham hope to use such figures as a bargaining tool to strike a long-term deal with proposed partners. Each flight into London's Heathrow Airport from Asia, before looping back on to the runway, flies directly over the site submitted for Spurs' new project.
"We are talking about the only stadium naming rights deal to be done in the UK – certainly in London – in the next decade," says Barber.
"The [planned] Olympic Stadium can't be sponsored and there is no other club in London – Chelsea included – who have got plans this far advanced, so we are in quite a unique position. This is a massive sponsorship deal and I think that has excited a few people in the region."
Any potential Middle East partner, by having their brand broadcast to 211 countries throughout the year, is perfectly positioned to become a global brand. And that, according to Barber, is why Tottenham are focusing on the GCC and Asia.
"The Coca-Colas, the Chryslers, the Pepsis, the Kodaks, the IBMs, the Yahoos; they are already internationally famous," he says.
"They don't need to name a stadium in London to become famous.
"Whereas, if you look to this region and the Far East, there are huge companies that are domestically focused or regionally focused and have massive international ambitions.
"They could either spend £300-£400m on TV advertising around the world or they can become involved in the Premier League and get their share of 90,000 hours of programming a year.
"When you look at the figures like that, it makes the sums we are looking at seem very small."
It is unsurprising then that several Middle Eastern companies have already enquired about a potential investment in the Premier League.
The UAE's Zabeel Investments, Dubai International Capital and Leisurecorp have all assessed the accounts of different top-flight clubs in recent months, while the Bahraini government's holding arm, Mumtalakat, has also shown an interest in the past.
The risks involved in stadium naming rights deals are complicated and difficult to assess, says Richard Busby, Principal, BDS Sponsorship.
However, Busby, who negotiated the BT Scotland sponsorship of Hampden Park, insists a team's on-pitch performances are relatively irrelevant in building a brand.
"There has been no research to suggest a brand loses credibility through naming a stadium of a club who subsequently perform poorly on the pitch," he says.
"Tottenham will get sponsorship, but I doubt they will get anywhere near as much as Arsenal because they are not consistently appearing in the Champions League."
Barber, however, is confident any partnership can be mutually beneficial. The increased revenue from a new stadium will allow further investment in the squad, which can, in turn, translate to better performances and higher league positions, he says.
Spurs finished 11th last season, but won the Carling Cup resulting in Uefa Cup qualification for the third consecutive year.
Having changed managers mid-season, the club is once again hoping to break the 'big four' heirarchy at the top of the Premier League next year and claim a share of the sports' lucrative spoils.
They will have to wait before reaping the benefits of the new stadium, however. The Northumberland Development Project is not expected to be operational until 2012 at the earliest.
"We currently have a stadium that has 36,000 seats and is sold out every week, we have 22,000 fans on the season-ticket waiting list – paying to be on that list –and every week that goes by is like a plane taking off with empty seats," says Barber.
"We're not capturing that revenue and we need to do that to compete at the highest level."
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05-02-2009, 1:54 |
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05-04-2009, 12:20 |
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MisterC
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Joined on 05-26-2007
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Mets and the Citi: $400 million for stadium-naming Rights (Citi Field)
The controversy arises not from the disappearance of the venerated
old stadium but from the fact that rather than attach the iconic Shea
name to the new ballpark, in November 2006 the Mets entered into an
agreement with Citigroup for naming rights for the new stadium.
Reports have put the value of the deal at $400 million spread out in
payments of $20 million per year over the course of the next 20 years.
That would make it one of the most lucrative stadium naming
arrangements in history. According to the Mets, besides the naming
rights for Citi Field, "The fully integrated partnership includes Citi
brand and business unit presence throughout the new ballpark."  Dallas Cowboys Stadium Naming Rights May Top Record Deal
By Suzanne Marta The Dallas Morning News
Branding rights could bring $20 million or more a year The
Dallas Cowboys and owner Jerry Jones may have a title before they even
kick off in their new stadium – the holder of the biggest naming rights
deal in sports history.
The current top spots go to the Barclays Center, future home to the
NBA’s New Jersey Nets, and Citi Field, where Major League Baseball’s
New York Mets will play in 2009, each pulling in 20-year, $400 million
contracts.
“I would think the Cowboys would expect at minimum what’s been done
in New York and look to exceed it,” said Jim Biegalski, who specializes
in naming rights for Millsport, a Dallas-based sports marketing firm.
Barclays Bank acquire naming rights to new Nets stadium
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http://www.barclayscenter.com/
Brooklyn bound: Jason Kidd will ply his trade in the new arena from 2009
Barclays have expanded their profile in the United States by
paying an estimated £200million to buy the naming rights for
the new stadium being built by the New Jersey Nets.
The NBA team are crossing the Hudson River to the New York
borough of Brooklyn after playing at the Meadowlands in East
Rutherford for the past 31 years. Ok we are not an American owned business however after reading the above our brand is better yes, i.e more global I think £150 - £200 million is not out of the question for Shirt and naming rights over a 10 - 15 year period!
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05-04-2009, 12:46 |
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05-05-2009, 1:14 |
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jimmyb
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Joined on 05-23-2007
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unknown:
jimmyb:
Boutros adds that, as well as having seen very healthy bookings from the UK, ongoing research into the impact the stadium naming rights deal is worth shows a yearly return of more than £30m in advertising value.
30m x 15 years = 450m lol
Umm.... I'm not quite sure what you mean by that? Are you drooling at the prospect of Spurs earning a possible £30 million per annum over a 15 year deal? If so, I feel that I have to point out that Boutros was talking about how much Emirates believe they gain as a result of the tie up with Arsenal - not how much Arsenal gain.
Apologies if I've misunderstood you (it's not entirely clear what you're referring to!).
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05-05-2009, 1:36 |
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jimmyb
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Billyiddo:
$20 million (a year) works out at roughly £ 13.4 million so over say 15 years (as the same as the Emirates) thats around £200 mil - we should be looking to get around that, some people are suggesting a 'gift in kind' in which case we'd smash that deal
Without having the exact breakdown to hand, I believe that Arsenal's deal with Emirates was about £60 million for 8 years of shirt sponsorship and £40 million for 15 years of stadium sponsoship. In other words, about £7.5 million per annum for the shirt sponsorship and about £2.67 million per annum for the stadium sponsorship. A total of only a little over £10 million per annum.
Spurs should be looking to get much more than that since it is generally accepted that Arsenal negotiated a really poor deal. Spurs already get £8.5 million per annum from Mansion alone. I would think that Spurs would be hoping for a combined shirt and stadium sponsorship deal worth £15 million or more per annum.
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05-05-2009, 11:55 |
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Unknown
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Joined on 03-01-2007
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jimmyb: unknown:
jimmyb:
Boutros adds that, as well as having seen very healthy bookings from the UK, ongoing research into the impact the stadium naming rights deal is worth shows a yearly return of more than £30m in advertising value.
30m x 15 years = 450m lol
Umm.... I'm not quite sure what you mean by that? Are you drooling at the prospect of Spurs earning a possible £30 million per annum over a 15 year deal? If so, I feel that I have to point out that Boutros was talking about how much Emirates believe they gain as a result of the tie up with Arsenal - not how much Arsenal gain.
Apologies if I've misunderstood you (it's not entirely clear what you're referring to!).
I was eluding to the fact that this is being seen as a benchmark, obviously we wouldn't get near £30m a year but its nice thinking it, and I bet Levy and Barber are thinking it too. Its just another item that says we should get something around the £20m a season mark.
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05-05-2009, 13:34 |
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yid-soldier
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nayimfromthehalfwayline: Finney Is Back:
Currently Emirates only pay £3m a year for the stadium sponsorship and £6.875m per year for the shirt sponsorship.
Am I the only one who thinks that is seriously low? Isnt our Mansion deal about £8m a year and thats just for the shirt sponsorship?! You can pretty well guarantee Levy will get a damn sight more for a combined stadium/shirt deal
That cannot be right. By the Emirates company calling a stadium after there name is one of the biggest forms of advertisment as the name stays active for a very long time unlike a billboard or tv ad which only gets shown for a set period of time. Emirates must have paid alot of money in building costs or somthing to only pay £3million yearly.
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05-05-2009, 14:06 |
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jimmyb
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Joined on 05-23-2007
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yid-soldier: nayimfromthehalfwayline: Finney Is Back:
Currently Emirates only pay £3m a year for the stadium sponsorship and £6.875m per year for the shirt sponsorship.
Am I the only one who thinks that is seriously low? Isnt our Mansion deal about £8m a year and thats just for the shirt sponsorship?!
You can pretty well guarantee Levy will get a damn sight more for a combined stadium/shirt deal
That cannot be right. By the Emirates company calling a stadium after there name is one of the biggest forms of advertisment as the name stays active for a very long time unlike a billboard or tv ad which only gets shown for a set period of time.
Emirates must have paid alot of money in building costs or somthing to only pay £3million yearly.
It is right, more or less.
The Emirates deal with Arsenal is worth a combined total of £100 million for 8 years of shirt sponsorship and 15 years of stadium sponsorship. For the 8 years of the combined shirt and stadium sponsorship, it works out at a fraction over £10 million per annum.
It is now widely recognized that Arsenal seriously undersold themselves for both deals. Remember that, at the time that the deal was signed, Arsenal were the unbeaten Premiership champions; that Man Utd and Chelsea were shortly to sign £14 million per annum and £10 million per annum deals with AIG and Samsung, for shirt sponsorship alone; and that Spurs, who had nothing like the success or global high profile as Arsenal, were soon to sign an £8.5 million per annum deal for shirt sponsorship.
With regards to the stadium aspect of the Emirates deal, it has to be placed in the context of previous stadium deals in Britain at that time, which were worth, at most, a matter of a few hundred thousand per annum.
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05-05-2009, 16:12 |
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yid-soldier
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Joined on 04-02-2007
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jimmyb: yid-soldier: nayimfromthehalfwayline: Finney Is Back:
Currently Emirates only pay £3m a year for the stadium sponsorship and £6.875m per year for the shirt sponsorship.
Am I the only one who thinks that is seriously low? Isnt our Mansion deal about £8m a year and thats just for the shirt sponsorship?!
You can pretty well guarantee Levy will get a damn sight more for a combined stadium/shirt deal
That cannot be right. By the Emirates company calling a stadium after there name is one of the biggest forms of advertisment as the name stays active for a very long time unlike a billboard or tv ad which only gets shown for a set period of time.
Emirates must have paid alot of money in building costs or somthing to only pay £3million yearly.
It is right, more or less.
The Emirates deal with Arsenal is worth a combined total of £100 million for 8 years of shirt sponsorship and 15 years of stadium sponsorship. For the 8 years of the combined shirt and stadium sponsorship, it works out at a fraction over £10 million per annum.
It is now widely recognized that Arsenal seriously undersold themselves for both deals. Remember that, at the time that the deal was signed, Arsenal were the unbeaten Premiership champions; that Man Utd and Chelsea were shortly to sign £14 million per annum and £10 million per annum deals with AIG and Samsung, for shirt sponsorship alone; and that Spurs, who had nothing like the success or global high profile as Arsenal, were soon to sign an £8.5 million per annum deal for shirt sponsorship.
With regards to the stadium aspect of the Emirates deal, it has to be placed in the context of previous stadium deals in Britain at that time, which were worth, at most, a matter of a few hundred thousand per annum.
Well if your right all i can do is laugh at the idiots haha.
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05-05-2009, 18:38 |
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Speedy
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yid-soldier: jimmyb: yid-soldier: nayimfromthehalfwayline: Finney Is Back:
Currently Emirates only pay £3m a year for the stadium sponsorship and £6.875m per year for the shirt sponsorship.
Am I the only one who thinks that is seriously low? Isnt our Mansion deal about £8m a year and thats just for the shirt sponsorship?!
You can pretty well guarantee Levy will get a damn sight more for a combined stadium/shirt deal
That cannot be right. By the Emirates company calling a stadium after there name is one of the biggest forms of advertisment as the name stays active for a very long time unlike a billboard or tv ad which only gets shown for a set period of time.
Emirates must have paid alot of money in building costs or somthing to only pay £3million yearly.
It is right, more or less.
The Emirates deal with Arsenal is worth a combined total of £100 million for 8 years of shirt sponsorship and 15 years of stadium sponsorship. For the 8 years of the combined shirt and stadium sponsorship, it works out at a fraction over £10 million per annum.
It is now widely recognized that Arsenal seriously undersold themselves for both deals. Remember that, at the time that the deal was signed, Arsenal were the unbeaten Premiership champions; that Man Utd and Chelsea were shortly to sign £14 million per annum and £10 million per annum deals with AIG and Samsung, for shirt sponsorship alone; and that Spurs, who had nothing like the success or global high profile as Arsenal, were soon to sign an £8.5 million per annum deal for shirt sponsorship.
With regards to the stadium aspect of the Emirates deal, it has to be placed in the context of previous stadium deals in Britain at that time, which were worth, at most, a matter of a few hundred thousand per annum.
Well if your right all i can do is laugh at the idiots haha.
i dont think they have recovered from David Dein leaving. they certainly havnt won anything... big game tonight though
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05-06-2009, 13:09 |
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Speedy: yid-soldier: jimmyb: yid-soldier: nayimfromthehalfwayline: Finney Is Back: Currently Emirates only pay £3m a year for the stadium sponsorship and £6.875m per year for the shirt sponsorship.
Am I the only one who thinks that is seriously low? Isnt our Mansion deal about £8m a year and thats just for the shirt sponsorship?! You can pretty well guarantee Levy will get a damn sight more for a combined stadium/shirt deal
That cannot be right. By the Emirates company calling a stadium after there name is one of the biggest forms of advertisment as the name stays active for a very long time unlike a billboard or tv ad which only gets shown for a set period of time. Emirates must have paid alot of money in building costs or somthing to only pay £3million yearly.
It is right, more or less. The Emirates deal with Arsenal is worth a combined total of £100 million for 8 years of shirt sponsorship and 15 years of stadium sponsorship. For the 8 years of the combined shirt and stadium sponsorship, it works out at a fraction over £10 million per annum. It is now widely recognized that Arsenal seriously undersold themselves for both deals. Remember that, at the time that the deal was signed, Arsenal were the unbeaten Premiership champions; that Man Utd and Chelsea were shortly to sign £14 million per annum and £10 million per annum deals with AIG and Samsung, for shirt sponsorship alone; and that Spurs, who had nothing like the success or global high profile as Arsenal, were soon to sign an £8.5 million per annum deal for shirt sponsorship. With regards to the stadium aspect of the Emirates deal, it has to be placed in the context of previous stadium deals in Britain at that time, which were worth, at most, a matter of a few hundred thousand per annum.
Well if your right all i can do is laugh at the idiots haha.
i dont think they have recovered from David Dein leaving. they certainly havnt won anything... big game tonight though
... and they STILL haven't won anything!   
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05-14-2009, 2:46 |
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05-17-2009, 15:03 |
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Intrepid
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I am surprised to see that there have been no comments on our VIP Guest at WHL yesterday, especially given that his visiting N17 is as rare as an honest MP.
Before the media gets carried away with claims of “Uncle Joe” being in Town to sanction £100 million plus “transfer kitties” during a meeting with Harry (N.B. all transfers are paid out of cash flow), the main purpose of his visit is to add his “considerable commercial clout” to meetings with blue chip Companies for potential sponsorship/naming rights deals. The auction process has begun and, following early feedback, confidence is high within TG and seat rights and share issues are now viewed as “purely contingencies”.
Although Paul Barber has been the leader of the envoy, it will be down to the only 2 shareholders of ENIC to negotiate the naming rights deal.
The strategy of our having a new Stadium without long term unsustainable debt and without effecting our ability to invest in the 1st Team Squad appears to be well on course. IMO there will be no long term debt incurred.
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05-18-2009, 2:30 |
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jimmyb
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Joined on 05-23-2007
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Intrepid:
I am surprised to see that there have been no comments on our VIP Guest at WHL yesterday, especially given that his visiting N17 is as rare as an honest MP.
Before the media gets carried away with claims of “Uncle Joe” being in Town to sanction £100 million plus “transfer kitties” during a meeting with Harry (N.B. all transfers are paid out of cash flow), the main purpose of his visit is to add his “considerable commercial clout” to meetings with blue chip Companies for potential sponsorship/naming rights deals. The auction process has begun and, following early feedback, confidence is high within TG and seat rights and share issues are now viewed as “purely contingencies”.
Although Paul Barber has been the leader of the envoy, it will be down to the only 2 shareholders of ENIC to negotiate the naming rights deal.
The strategy of our having a new Stadium without long term unsustainable debt and without effecting our ability to invest in the 1st Team Squad appears to be well on course. IMO there will be no long term debt incurred.
I had no idea that JL was at WHL yesterday.
How far away would you say we are from a deal? In a recent newspaper interview, Paul Barber said that he was off again to the Middle East and Asia this summer - which suggested that they're still at a relatively early, fact finding stage in the process. Has something changed?
Also, will blue chip companies really be interested? I thought Barber was targeting upcoming Middle Eastern / Asian companies in need of a global profile.
Anyway, it's all sounding very positive thus far.
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05-18-2009, 19:10 |
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Intrepid
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jimmyb: Intrepid:
I am surprised to see that there have been no comments on our VIP Guest at WHL yesterday, especially given that his visiting N17 is as rare as an honest MP.
Before the media gets carried away with claims of “Uncle Joe” being in Town to sanction £100 million plus “transfer kitties” during a meeting with Harry (N.B. all transfers are paid out of cash flow), the main purpose of his visit is to add his “considerable commercial clout” to meetings with blue chip Companies for potential sponsorship/naming rights deals. The auction process has begun and, following early feedback, confidence is high within TG and seat rights and share issues are now viewed as “purely contingencies”.
Although Paul Barber has been the leader of the envoy, it will be down to the only 2 shareholders of ENIC to negotiate the naming rights deal.
The strategy of our having a new Stadium without long term unsustainable debt and without effecting our ability to invest in the 1st Team Squad appears to be well on course. IMO there will be no long term debt incurred.
I had no idea that JL was at WHL yesterday.
How far away would you say we are from a deal? In a recent newspaper interview, Paul Barber said that he was off again to the Middle East and Asia this summer - which suggested that they're still at a relatively early, fact finding stage in the process. Has something changed?
Also, will blue chip companies really be interested? I thought Barber was targeting upcoming Middle Eastern / Asian companies in need of a global profile.
Anyway, it's all sounding very positive thus far.
I cannot see any announcement being made until such time as full planning permission is received as it would not make sense for any company to agree to hand over +/- £250 million for a stadium that has not got full approval.
However, that does not mean that a deal will not be concluded before the end of this calendar year.
Paul Barber openly going on his "auction tour" has had the desired effect and we have been approached by companies wishing to negotiate a deal. The fact that we will be probably be the only PL club in London to have a new stadium in the next 15 years is too good an opportunity for companies to turn down - it is a once in a lifetime opportunity which we are marketing to the hilt.
It should also be remembered just how powerful TG's influence can be and with the Lake Nona, Harmony Cove and New Providence projects just 3 of the Group's ongoing high profile projects, there is a clamour to be associated with the Group as any exposure to markets via THFC will be magnified by TG's overall marketing. You just have to see the TG corporate video to realise that naming rights for a stadium in N17 will get a global audience without any need to see any football match. This is being utilised forcefully hence the top man coming for negotiations.
For example, it is very easy for TG to offer the potential sponsor free advertising for the Tavistock Cup which has huge global audiences each year - throw in a deal on corporate golf days with Tiger and Ernie and it can be seen just how useful (and powerful) the TG involvement can be - there are over 170 companies within the Group and every time a hit is made on any of those companies websites the new sponsor will have their name linked - the deal is not just about football.
I categorically do not know the identity of the companies that have contacted us - I have some ideas which I will keep to myself but suffice it to say that they will all be blue chip - IMO when Paul mentioned up and coming he was referring to up and coming markets (geographically) as opposed to some start up company which clearly would not have the necessary fundings for what we need.
It should also be remembered what "Uncle Joe's" background is vis a vis how he made his big bucks and although reports that a deal has already been done with HSBC (which is untrue), it is not outside the realms of possibility that a company with a financial background will pay for the stadium. That is pure conjecture on my behalf and is not a hint in any way.
http://www.tavistock.com/corporate/
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05-19-2009, 21:21 |
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05-19-2009, 23:29 |
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05-20-2009, 0:01 |
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jimmyb
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Billyiddo:that cowboys stadium looks bloody rank !
Really?
It might not be the prettiest of stadiums but it's mighty impressive. Four tiers of seats plus six separate rows of corporate boxes. Capacity of 80,000+ with plenty of potential to expand to 100,000 or so by adding seats to both ends. A massive sliding roof supported by two enormous arches. The biggest video screens in the world.
Don't forget too that it's not yet finished. Wait until all the finishing touches have been added before casting final judgement.
You might not fall in love with the place (unless you are a dedicated Cowboys fan) but it would certainly take your breath away if ever you went there.
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05-20-2009, 13:58 |
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firefly
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jimmyb: Billyiddo:that cowboys stadium looks bloody rank !
Really?
It might not be the prettiest of stadiums but it's mighty impressive. Four tiers of seats plus six separate rows of corporate boxes. Capacity of 80,000+ with plenty of potential to expand to 100,000 or so by adding seats to both ends. A massive sliding roof supported by two enormous arches. The biggest video screens in the world.
Don't forget too that it's not yet finished. Wait until all the finishing touches have been added before casting final judgement.
You might not fall in love with the place (unless you are a dedicated Cowboys fan) but it would certainly take your breath away if ever you went there.
This stadium might be huge but it lacks any kind of class. I don't go to a game to see the world's biggest screen.
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05-20-2009, 18:14 |
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05-21-2009, 22:21 |
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Dazza5
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2009 BIGGEST KNEE JERKER AWARD WINNER
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Mumorn:I think it looks alright, but we should be unique, boring hearing Arsenal fans saying we're copying them. 
looks like a cross between the starship enterprise and a beetle
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