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World Cup 2018 Group G (Belgium, Panama, Tunisia, England)

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elltrev said:
I'm gonna watch the game again on Friday, so I'll keep a particular eye out for Henderson.
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When he is facing the right way and has his head up he is capable of some decent balls/vision. He is equally capable of passing to no-one/straight out of play. Seems a bit of a lottery with him. That ball up the channel to Linguard(?) was superb, and yet he also played a good few stinkers.

My bigger issue with him is the lack of awareness. He is the primary outlet for the defence, but receives the ball facing them and with no idea who is around him (if anyone). He should be side on, and should know what time he does/doesnt have. In his case he invariably ends up knocking it back where it came from, which means passing moves actually gain momentum ages after they should have, by which time Tunisia were well set in their defensive shape.

He also clearly cant handle being closed down. Gets very flustered and just fires the ball away. Partially linked to lacking awareness, IMO - a couple of times it almost looked like the Tunisia player made him jump! But otherwise its a lack of close control/confidence.

He isnt a BAD player. I am at pains to state. Im not a fan, but I just think he is bang average and am really quite baffled that not only does he manage to captain Liverpool, but also seems to have plenty here favouring him as well. I just dont think he is that good, and I think it was telling he was one of only a few who looked a level below the team yesterday.

elltrev said:
1) With this formation, with only one true CM, I think a main priority is to have the athleticism to cover a large space defensively. Henderson does that well, whereas I think that's Dier's biggest weakness (yes he's intelligent with his positioning, but as the sole CM there will likely be times where that's not enough - and let's be honest Dier is a bit of an oil tanker!)
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Im not sure he is that much more athletic, but I am sure Id rather a player with superior positioning than pace.

I also think Dier is just smarter, he is well adjusted to covering spaces left by runners etc - I genuinely think he is the better option. And thats not spurs tinted glasses. We have 3 at the back, Dier is well versed in that and knows where/when to slot in to make a 4.

He also is more canny on the ball, isnt averse to sucking a player in and then releasing it - as well as has a decent enough passing range.

Then there is the added bonus of the Alli/Kane/Trippier team mates side. National sides can cheat a team chemistry in using players like this.

(for similar reasons Id be tempted to play Delph LWB to gel better with Sterling)


Finally on Hendersen/Dier - look at Liverpool, Spurs and then England, which team has a similar ethos? Spurs are much more aligned than Pool IMO.


elltrev said:
2) I also think part of Southgate's rationale with this system is that we have centre-backs who are comfortable and effective on the ball, and that part of our plan/style is to pass around the back and free up one of the CBs to step into midfield and use their passing. Like Maguire did to good effect last night (aside from his couple of wobblers). So perhaps there's less onus on the CM to be a brilliant passer.
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I agree, though I think its telling that by the end of the game Maguire and Stones were basically bypassing Henderson, and we were looking more dangerous.

Ideally we have someone in CM who can take the ball off the defenders and play it into Alli/linguard/Trippier to get us up the field. Henderson was failing at that last night, IMO, both Stones and Maguire did better in these regards.


elltrev said:
3) I also don't think Dier's a very good passer to be honest - in fact my main frustration with him is the same thing that's levelled at Henderson - that when he receives the ball he plays it back in whatever direction it came from, often sideways and backwards. Until the odd inaccurate long pass. But that debate's been done to death, so probably just have to agree to disagree until Dier starts a game and we can talk about specifics.
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I think with Dier he is cautious, but also more aware. He will play it back when he cant turn, not "just because". I dont think either Hendersen or Dier are especially good (though both manage the odd hollywood ball), I just think of the two Dier is the more intelligent user of the ball.
 
The Mirror

FIFA will analyse England's failure to be awarded a penalty by video technology in their World Cup victory over Tunisia on Monday.

Double goal hero Harry Kane was bundled to the floor on two occasions - first by Ferjani Sassi and then Yassine Meriah - either side of half-time, but Video Assistant Referee Sandro Ricci and his team failed to advise on-pitch official Wilmar Roldan to point to the spot.

On Sunday, FIFA backed all of the decisions reached by VAR at this World Cup up to that point, but the outcry over the England calls have now led to them taking action.

The Telegraph report that referee's chiefs will stage a press conference at some stage of the tournament to explain why some decisions were reached.

There were suggestions that other infringements on the pitch at the time were to blame for Kane not being awarded either penalty.

For the first, there is clearly a push from John Stones on Tunisia defender Ellyes Skhiri before the ball reaches Kane and Sassi, and then for the second it is possible to argue that Kane grabbed Meriah's arm as the pair tussled.



If theres one good thing to come from VAR, its this sort of accountability. Hopefully the added scrutiny will lead to more right decisions, and more openness around the decisions that are made.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
The Mirror

FIFA will analyse England's failure to be awarded a penalty by video technology in their World Cup victory over Tunisia on Monday.

Double goal hero Harry Kane was bundled to the floor on two occasions - first by Ferjani Sassi and then Yassine Meriah - either side of half-time, but Video Assistant Referee Sandro Ricci and his team failed to advise on-pitch official Wilmar Roldan to point to the spot.

On Sunday, FIFA backed all of the decisions reached by VAR at this World Cup up to that point, but the outcry over the England calls have now led to them taking action.

The Telegraph report that referee's chiefs will stage a press conference at some stage of the tournament to explain why some decisions were reached.

There were suggestions that other infringements on the pitch at the time were to blame for Kane not being awarded either penalty.

For the first, there is clearly a push from John Stones on Tunisia defender Ellyes Skhiri before the ball reaches Kane and Sassi, and then for the second it is possible to argue that Kane grabbed Meriah's arm as the pair tussled.



If theres one good thing to come from VAR, its this sort of accountability. Hopefully the added scrutiny will lead to more right decisions, and more openness around the decisions that are made.
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Kane needs to get into the ref's ear more. He is too nice and lets things go. He needs to start making it more difficult for officials to ignore fouls on him.
 
milo said:
Kane needs to get into the ref's ear more. He is too nice and lets things go. He needs to start making it more difficult for officials to ignore fouls on him.
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Yea, if I’d have been playing that game (thanks Gareth, “think it’s about time I have my say”!) I would have made sure the ref was aware of the foul on Kane and demanded for VAR to have a look, he would have said no, but at least it’s on his radar now.
 
milo said:
Kane needs to get into the ref's ear more. He is too nice and lets things go. He needs to start making it more difficult for officials to ignore fouls on him.
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Its a tough one, part of Kanes appeal is that he just gets on with it. No ego, not flashy, just loves playing - Im not sure Id want to see him bitching at the ref - even if he does lose out for not doing it at times.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Its a tough one, part of Kanes appeal is that he just gets on with it. No ego, not flashy, just loves playing - Im not sure Id want to see him bitching at the ref - even if he does lose out for not doing it at times.
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I think that you can do it without histrionics but you need to get the point across and try and influence his decisions for the rest of the game. If you don't do that, you are conceding a big advantage to any opposition who don't have the same qualms.
 
milo said:
I think that you can do it without histrionics but you need to get the point across and try and influence his decisions for the rest of the game. If you don't do that, you are conceding a big advantage to any opposition who don't have the same qualms.
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One thing I will say is that Southgate's prep will have been exceptional. Perhaps they determined that this reffing team was so poor, companioning to the ref might've resulted in a yellow card? It appears to me they were so inept that a complaint might've brought some genuine issues??? I do agree that overall, learning the subtle art of correct whinging will be helpful.

On another note, I am still BUZZING with pride.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
The Mirror

FIFA will analyse England's failure to be awarded a penalty by video technology in their World Cup victory over Tunisia on Monday.

Double goal hero Harry Kane was bundled to the floor on two occasions - first by Ferjani Sassi and then Yassine Meriah - either side of half-time, but Video Assistant Referee Sandro Ricci and his team failed to advise on-pitch official Wilmar Roldan to point to the spot.

On Sunday, FIFA backed all of the decisions reached by VAR at this World Cup up to that point, but the outcry over the England calls have now led to them taking action.

The Telegraph report that referee's chiefs will stage a press conference at some stage of the tournament to explain why some decisions were reached.

There were suggestions that other infringements on the pitch at the time were to blame for Kane not being awarded either penalty.

For the first, there is clearly a push from John Stones on Tunisia defender Ellyes Skhiri before the ball reaches Kane and Sassi, and then for the second it is possible to argue that Kane grabbed Meriah's arm as the pair tussled.



If theres one good thing to come from VAR, its this sort of accountability. Hopefully the added scrutiny will lead to more right decisions, and more openness around the decisions that are made.
Click to expand...

Cant help think that (the bold bit) sounds a bit like FIFA-arse covering (VARse covering?).
And even if that is the correct view of the incident, doesn’t that then mean the referee missed two fouls rather than one? It might excuse the VAR but reflects more badly still on the match officials.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Cant help think that (the bold bit) sounds a bit like FIFA-arse covering (VARse covering?).
And even if that is the correct view of the incident, doesn’t that then mean the referee missed two fouls rather than one? It might excuse the VAR but reflects more badly still on the match officials.
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Agreed. And I actually think it should be common practice for them to come out and explain these decisions.

That way, everyone knows. Maybe there is good reason? Maybe there isnt - either way we/the refs are wiser after the event.

If they just get to hide away itll end up raising people against VAR.
 
It's not, and I'm not a big fan, but a lot of his caps have come in a dysfunctional England side, also he's not always played as a forward has he?
 
After the season he has had I think he is still one of our genuine danger men.

I think against Tunisia he just looked lost, with Young being a big culprit in why.

Rose or Delph up that side to actually feed and engage with him more and I think we'll see a better performance.
 
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