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Vladimir Putin - The president of Russia

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by Rorschach, 25 Nov 2018.

  1. Rorschach

    Rorschach Willie Hall

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    Putin moves a pawn into play while the US and the UK are in political turmoil.
     
  2. milo

    milo Teddy Sheringham Staff Member

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  3. Rorschach

    Rorschach Willie Hall

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  4. milo

    milo Teddy Sheringham Staff Member

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    Let's be honest, he didn't fork out on Trump and Brexit not to take advantage whilst we were distracted by them
     
  5. Rorschach

    Rorschach Willie Hall

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    Putin is playing 3d chess while the rest of us are playing draughts (also called checkers if you are heathen). The story has always been Putin, Russia and Europe. Trump is the patsy, the lightning rod, the means to disrupt the European safety net which the US has been to a degree. Brexit was an absolute bonus.

    To be honest I couldn't give a fig what happens in America domestically. Trump is who they voted for so they have to live with his self serving decisions. US foreign policy and environmental policy affect me and I'm pretty worried about both of those.
     
  6. milo

    milo Teddy Sheringham Staff Member

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    [tin foil hat]One Putin theory I heard the other week was that his backing of Assad was with the aim of driving refugees to Europe to undermine European governments [/tin foil hat]

    I think that this ignores there being strong Russian support for Syria for decades.
     
  7. milo

    milo Teddy Sheringham Staff Member

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  8. Rorschach

    Rorschach Willie Hall

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    There's a chap I follow on twitter called Seth Abramson who has an interesting recent piece in the Guardian about the complexities of these stories. They are too big for conventional journalism to properly report on. There are just too many strands to it and he is right. Individual stories don't join the dots, nor can they really as there is not enough time to make these connections. And this mostly because of that orange fool squatting over his fan every day. The news cycle is covered in his faeces.

    Edit : here it is https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-to-report-we-must-turn-curatorial-journalism
     
    Last edited: 26 Nov 2018
  9. Trixster

    Trixster Reto Ziegler

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    There is a nice saying, takes two to tango.. Ukraine is far from being the blameless innocents that the media seems to love to portray.
    If they did do something stupid i.e. ignoring stop requests, not beyond the realms of possibility, then for me Russia is entitled to take some action.

    Same would happen here with our coastguard if something like that happened, though we may have more restraint.

    Blocking the bridge is twofold though, while it could be taken that it's a blockade it could just as well be seen as protection of an asset.
     
  10. Gazza

    Gazza Mauricio Taricco

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    If we had Putin as our prime minister he would be lauded as churchills successor.

    Alot of propaganda about Russia and him but i actually think he brilliant for his nation
     
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  11. Rorschach

    Rorschach Willie Hall

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    Of course he would be lauded because if you criticise him you will be murdered. He kills his opponents, dissidents and journalists. Lovely chap.
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2018
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  12. LemonadeMoney

    LemonadeMoney Jimmy Neighbour

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    Kill certain politicians and journalists you say?
     
  13. StephenH

    StephenH Tom Huddlestone

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    What troubles me more is we have to explain these things.
     
  14. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Christian Ziege

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    That is very true.

    Pre Syrian war most Western intelligence services believed Asad was the best option to back. Western educated, and providing some stability in a region that has been completely undermined by western intervention. But then so many richer nations waded in, backing the regiem they wanted in/out and it became a total mess. But pre-conflict, the UK actually thought backing Asad was the pragmatic option that would result in the least destabilisation. When Russia did it was villified. Russia does get a biased press here. They aren't golden - they are an imperialist power - but Russia is not always as bad as is often projected.

    The bigger piece (history) that no one talks about, is how Nato tried to pull the former Soviet states away from Russia's control. Georgia, Ukraine...about 10 years ago...were wooed by the west. I think this was a turning point. As Georgia becuase a US ally and the EU lifted its skirt to Ukraine, Russia made plans to fight back. All of the things that have happened since, subverting democracy etc, can be traced to this imo. That is my take on it.
     
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  15. AuroRaman

    AuroRaman Young-Pyo Lee

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    Excellent post.
     
  16. Lost Mango

    Lost Mango Ramon Vega

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    Georgians hate Russians. They looked to join NATO and the West to gain protection (and a new market) from Russia. Wasn't so much the West trying to woo them as them looking for allies against their biggest fear. Russia didn't like that which is hardly the same as a 'fight back'.

    The West have played this badly (especially in Syria) but Russia aren't some poor, slandered party with no bad intentions.
     
  17. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Christian Ziege

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    Quite. Russia, like the US , is imperialist. Half of Ukraine hate Russia too. Yet 10 years ago they had open boarders, families were/are split over the two countries, they were close partners albeit with Russia in control. Ukrain gets its oil from Russia still. But the love is lost. No one wins in the 'Big Game'. When rich countries try to play geopolitics in places like Syria and Ukraine it always seems to end badly, with the nation in the middle the worst hit.

    Is it better that a stable imiperfect regiem remains, with the possibility of evolution, rather than creating deep instability and conflict?
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2018
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  18. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Christian Ziege

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    There is open data published by the US on how much they spent (billions of $s) in Ukraine. The right wing in the US still believed in the cold war. @LostMango I'm not sure its accurate to say it was one-way traffic. If Russia started funding Mexico cartels or the IRA would we put up with it?

    This is from 2014 but is a 'tad more ballanced' ;): https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger Okay its a leftist stance, but most of what Pilger writes stacks up. The US have a history of changing nation's leaders that they don't like. Was Ukraine any different?
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2018
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  19. StephenH

    StephenH Tom Huddlestone

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    Thus we have the Yemen catastrophe.
     
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  20. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Christian Ziege

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    If you're interested, the Maidan massacre in Kiev which kick started the war in Ukraine, was definitely a planned act. People on both sides were shot - not by protestors or police - but by some kind of motivated agent. Whether this intervention was Russian or US funded we don't know. However, the same bullets were found to have shot people on both sides - in other words Snipers were trying to instigate revolution and spark civil war. As Russia had its man in power (Yanukovych who was demoncratically elected) it would seem unlikely they would seed the revolution. It would also be consistent with US funded Latin American cold war 'interventions'.

    When the revolution started the EU and the US backed the overthrow of the democratically elected President. If we the West were truely impartial I'm not sure we would back the overthrow of elected officials.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31359021

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2018
  21. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Christian Ziege

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    ...Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine...all totally fuked nations now. You'd think we'd learn.
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2018

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