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Vincent Janssen

If Janssen hasn't changed his alleged attitude then Poch is right not to pick him whatever our injury situation, what sort of message would that send to the rest of the players at the club? This team has the best spirit I've seen for years at this club and I wouldn't want to see it thrown away for a player who might change a result.
 
Legohamster said:
I still think he is beyond average and we need better, but I still cant get my head around him being made unpickable now with the current situation we have.

What if someone else picks up a knock?
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Its bigger picture stuff. Its about leadership, not a match to match philosophy.

Poch has his rules. You stick by them, everyone gets along, we are all one happy family.

You dont stick by them, there have to be consequences, else his authority on matters is undermined.

I dont know what Jansen did/didnt do - but I do know he did something for Poch to have pushed him out and declare him not part of his plans.

This sets an example to all. Shape up or else. Stick to the rules, or you wont like what happens.

For Poch to bring in Jansen now because the team (the team that is bonded over these rules) is short on bodies undermines the whole thing.

Its simply not worth it.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Its bigger picture stuff. Its about leadership, not a match to match philosophy.

Poch has his rules. You stick by them, everyone gets along, we are all one happy family.

You dont stick by them, there have to be consequences, else his authority on matters is undermined.

I dont know what Jansen did/didnt do - but I do know he did something for Poch to have pushed him out and declare him not part of his plans.

This sets an example to all. Shape up or else. Stick to the rules, or you wont like what happens.

For Poch to bring in Jansen now because the team (the team that is bonded over these rules) is short on bodies undermines the whole thing.

Its simply not worth it.
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Thats fine if its the case, but it begs the question, why is he still here, depending on the severity of his unprofessional behaviour either pay him off or fire him for breach of contract, waiting two years in the hope of receiving enough of a fee to offset his wages whilst having to facilitate him in the organisation seems a poor option to me.
 
galeforce said:
Thats fine if its the case, but it begs the question, why is he still here, depending on the severity of his unprofessional behaviour either pay him off or fire him for breach of contract, waiting two years in the hope of receiving enough of a fee to offset his wages whilst having to facilitate him in the organisation seems a poor option to me.
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What sort of message does that send out? fudge about and we'll pay you off. Why shouldnt the club try and get some money back, it's easy to be cavalier with other people's money, it's the same with the meaning about signing an other striker, what do you get for £70m? Morata, lots on here wanted him.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
What sort of message does that send out? fudge about and we'll pay you off. Why shouldnt the club try and get some money back, it's easy to be cavalier with other people's money, it's the same with the meaning about signing an other striker, what do you get for £70m? Morata, lots on here wanted him.
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I'm suggesting that overall its cheaper to get rid early, I'm proposing a saving, it's more than just wages to Janssen, its the provision of training/equipment/travel/coaching/time and thought cycles of Poch, Levy and all involved on an asset marked as redundant.
 
galeforce said:
Thats fine if its the case, but it begs the question, why is he still here, depending on the severity of his unprofessional behaviour either pay him off or fire him for breach of contract, waiting two years in the hope of receiving enough of a fee to offset his wages whilst having to facilitate him in the organisation seems a poor option to me.
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I think the simplest answer is that we havent been able to get rid of him.

I dont think there has been huge demand, and as memory serves he has had injuries at inopportune times to impede moves as well.

I wouldnt advise paying him off to go, that effectively rewards bad behaviour.

The only compromise we might have made to help him move on is reduce our asking price (if its too high in the first place) but as I say, theres little evidence of interest in him so it may not have been an option.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think the simplest answer is that we havent been able to get rid of him.

I dont think there has been huge demand, and as memory serves he has had injuries at inopportune times to impede moves as well.

I wouldnt advise paying him off to go, that effectively rewards bad behaviour.

The only compromise we might have made to help him move on is reduce our asking price (if its too high in the first place) but as I say, theres little evidence of interest in him so it may not have been an option.
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I'm just struggling to understand where the clubs line is, behaviour bad enough to not be considered for the first team in any circumstance but that does not constitute a breach of contract from the player.

We've effectively put him on gardening leave, maybe the fault isn't solely his?
 
galeforce said:
I'm just struggling to understand where the clubs line is, behaviour bad enough to not be considered for the first team in any circumstance but that does not constitute a breach of contract from the player.

We've effectively put him on gardening leave, maybe the fault isn't solely his?
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It could well be everything is really quite amicable and that he is still here is simply poor fortune.

It could be, simply, its a wrong time/wrong club sort of situation. Maybe he just isnt good enough. Maybe its more severe?

We dont have any facts, so cant specifically judge.

The only thing I can reiterate is that there will be rules or standards to adhere to, and it is of utmost importance they are enforced. Even if they seem like flimflam things, or they end up costing us like with Jansen, its important Pochs authority is absolute.
 
galeforce said:
I'm suggesting that overall its cheaper to get rid early, I'm proposing a saving, it's more than just wages to Janssen, its the provision of training/equipment/travel/coaching/time and thought cycles of Poch, Levy and all involved on an asset marked as redundant.
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To me it's about who runs the club, the players or manager. I'm sure we would sell him if we had an offer,
 
You have to admire the way Poch has stuck to his word and is not considering Janssen for game, there is no doubt we need him but as others have said IF he was to pick him then how would that look to other players.
 
parklane1 said:
You have to admire the way Poch has stuck to his word and is not considering Janssen for game, there is no doubt we need him but as others have said IF he was to pick him then how would that look to other players.
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I think it is more of a concern, obviously it's all just speculation as to what has caused the rift but Poch must have been involved in sanctioning the transfer and had done the required levels of research. The same could probably be said of Osvaldo. Add Llorente in to the mix and it's not a great track record for signing strikers or perhaps his management of them (Son is the counter argument but I think the jury is still out on if he is best labelled a striker).

Further to this, if interested clubs that may respect Poch's opinion see the fractured relationship and complete dismissal of Vincent as part of is plans, would that not inspire some concern as to whether they should make a move for him?
 
parklane1 said:
You have to admire the way Poch has stuck to his word and is not considering Janssen for game, there is no doubt we need him but as others have said IF he was to pick him then how would that look to other players.
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I would look like he was being a sensible pragmatist who understands that sometimes you have to swallow your pride to A- get the result you want and B get Janssen in the shop window. Imagine if he played tomorrow and scored a couple, it puts him right in the marketplace, at an important time in the transfer window. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of what has gone on but apart from him shagging Missus Poch I cant imagine what he boy could have done. Finally stating in public that there is no way back for Janssen means other clubs know that we are desperate to be rid and we are going to take a massive hit on the 18 milluon quid we payed for him and that is a lot of money down the drain. I love Poch , but he has messed up badly here IMHO
 
Yermiyahu said:
I would look like he was being a sensible pragmatist who understands that sometimes you have to swallow your pride to A- get the result you want and B get Janssen in the shop window. Imagine if he played tomorrow and scored a couple, it puts him right in the marketplace, at an important time in the transfer window. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of what has gone on but apart from him shagging Missus Poch I cant imagine what he boy could have done. Finally stating in public that there is no way back for Janssen means other clubs know that we are desperate to be rid and we are going to take a massive hit on the 18 milluon quid we payed for him and that is a lot of money down the drain. I love Poch , but he has messed up badly here IMHO
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Its a difficult one for us fans ' (seeing as we do not know the real reason for this) to understand/know the real reasons. Not sure we ever will but its not hard to feel sorry for Janssen on one hand ( and the fact we need him) and also to back Poch in what he is doing and has done for us as a club.
 
From a purely footballing perspective for him not to be considered as a back up to Llorente when Son and Kane are missing tells me he's done something that is a red line for Poch. GNK as done nothing to indicate he is the level we need but still found himself on the bench, For a manager to dismiss any asset that could benefit him is either a massive personality clash, a power play to show who's boss or something that along the lines of gross misconduct that is not being publicly revealed to protect his potential transfer.

Debates about his ability aside (no worse than Llorente IMO) it's either consistent non engagement in training / associated lifestyle demands or his refusal to move when offers have come in.

If the latter was borne out of a desire to prove himself I sympathise with the player, if it's due to refusing a pay cut I don't.
 
parklane1 said:
Its a difficult one for us fans ' (seeing as we do not know the real reason for this) to understand/know the real reasons. Not sure we ever will but its not hard to feel sorry for Janssen on one hand ( and the fact we need him) and also to back Poch in what he is doing and has done for us as a club.
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Don't worry Poch will reveal all in his next book. To make my self clear I am a massive fan of Poch and would happily sit down and enjoy sharing a bowl of custard with him, but I hope that he has learned something from this experience
 
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