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Toby Alderweireld

harr1984 said:
I dont think he has either - but I think Nayim is right as a general rule. He has made most players he has coached better players, current and past players constantly gush about him. Can you think of many who have gone on to be better or even as good as they were under Poch? Lallana and Walker have been as good, beyond that Im struggling....
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I might be wrong but i think what @nayimfromthehalfwayline is saying (and so am i) is that perhaps Poch hasn't improved every player individually as much as we think. They look good within a super organised and well drilled team. In a team without those characteristics they could look rather average (there are exceptions of course and im not downplaying Poch's work)

I always thought that with Fergies teams, the Nevilles, Irwin, Butt, Park, Pallister etc...elsewhere you might not even notice them.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Flopped? Played 12 games from them as a 22 year old and even came on as a sub in the CL final. I'm not sure a 22 year old being used as first reserve for a team winning the Spanish league and reaching hte CL final can be categorised as flopping?
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12 games in 2 seasons.

Compared to say Wimmer's 31 games in 2 seasons for us. Or Foyth (19 YO) playing 8 games for us last season.

That's the level of impact he had.
 
jamonserrano said:
Basically it's hard to disagree, but Levy had been moving the goalposts in the last days of the Lloris transfer and he came out of it as a master of the art of negotiation here.
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I raised that exact point earlier in the thread, because I thought that we couldn’t exactly complain of Toby’s agent doing it when we do the same thing on transfers.

I guess the difference is this is a current player at a club where loyalty means something to the manager. I get the impression Levy would probably be willing to keep negotiating but if Poch stuck his neck out to convince Levy to up the deal, Toby’s agent agreed, and then moved the goalposts, I think it would be tough to see a way back. Poch has his reputation to think about too, not to mention loyalty, and he needs to know that if he goes to Levy to ask Levy to go higher, he can trust the player. There’s only so many times he can do that and the player doesn’t sign that Levy says ‘sorry, but no’, and in this case I can see why Poch would just prefer to have him out.

Quotes yesterday saying Toby wouldn’t mind staying for the next 2 years. All very funny. Other clubs don’t seem to be banging down the door for him like they anticipated. I’m sure he’s thinking he’ll get a big move once the fee drops to 25M if so, but he’s taking a risk. Another season as second choice behind Sanchez and on 50k a week...he has to wonder whether all of this hardcore negotiation with Levy was really worth it.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I said he was professional, ie he knows he's got a job to do and in that moment he will always do his best. My point was (from his comments) that he may not be 'in love' with the game in a general sense, and that maybe a weakness from a managers perspective when your trying to drag a team up those last few steps.
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He's been the best CB in the league for 2 of the last 3 seasons, won multiple titles and at every club he's played they've near enough had the best defensive record in the league that year. I don't think you can say that based on his history he doesn't enjoy the game or he wouldn't have risen to those heights. Talent only gets you so far, workrate takes you to the next step and you only have that if you genuinely want something.
 
P.D. said:
He's been the best CB in the league for 2 of the last 3 seasons, won multiple titles and at every club he's played they've near enough had the best defensive record in the league that year. I don't think you can say that based on his history he doesn't enjoy the game or he wouldn't have risen to those heights. Talent only gets you so far, workrate takes you to the next step and you only have that if you genuinely want something.
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True, but that dosen't mean that you must love it.
 
Gutter Boy said:
12 games in 2 seasons.

Compared to say Wimmer's 31 games in 2 seasons for us. Or Foyth (19 YO) playing 8 games for us last season.

That's the level of impact he had.
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It would’ve been pretty difficult for Alderweireld to have played any games for Atletico in the second season considering he was on loan at Southampton. Also that was league games only I was talking about. If you want to compare to Foyth and factor in all competitions then it was 22 games that Toby played in that single season at Atletico, rather impressive for a 22 year old center half in his first season in Spain don’t you think?

“Flop” is therefore very wide of the mark.
 
Finney Is Back said:
It would’ve been pretty difficult for Alderweireld to have played any games for Atletico in the second season considering he was on loan at Southampton. Also that was league games only I was talking about. If you want to compare to Foyth and factor in all competitions then it was 22 games that Toby played in that single season at Atletico, rather impressive for a 22 year old center half in his first season in Spain don’t you think?

“Flop” is therefore very wide of the mark.
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But he played poorly and was considered a disappointment, hence being pushed off to Soton. He was a big prospect in his Ajax days and arrived with a big reputation
 
P.D. said:
He's been the best CB in the league for 2 of the last 3 seasons, won multiple titles and at every club he's played they've near enough had the best defensive record in the league that year. I don't think you can say that based on his history he doesn't enjoy the game or he wouldn't have risen to those heights. Talent only gets you so far, workrate takes you to the next step and you only have that if you genuinely want something.
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My theory was based on the comments he made in some interview another poster posted.

And hey.....what he thinks now, and what his motivation is now might not be what it was when he was a teenager and in his early 20's
 
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