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The Squad

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by africanspurs, 1 Feb 2012.

  1. africanspurs

    africanspurs Justin Edinburgh

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    Squad Evaluation ......

    I think we need one.

    Too many thoughts bouncing around the forum in different threads with regards to the window sales & purchases. Missed opportunities as well as the standing of our squad that we were so proud a few days ago comparing to team around us that we will be competing with for various things (top4, CL, prem title, FA cup)

    (Feel free NOT to add nelsen yet as he hasnt technically joined. we can add him in after)

    so a roll call of the squad
    what we think of it overall
    What do we think of the impact of the new signings
    Impact of players left
    Will fringe players that have been in the shadows step up the plate (destiny for great things)
    Do we still trust harry
    Has he lost his marbles
    Has he got everything well in control
    Who the fudge has pocketed our TV and CL money.


    would be good to air everything out in one thread
     
  2. Libero

    Libero Steve Hodge

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    Overall I wasn't too bothered if we did any business in January, I was fully aware how difficult and inflated it would be to actually buy a forward from someone outright that fits our needs, especially the names being bandied about like Remy, Llorente, Leandro Damaio etc.

    I think Saha is a clever signing personally speaking. I have always thought he was quite a decent player and he does hold the ball up really well but the obvious downside is injuries. I think it is an upgrade in the strikers department. Pavlyuchenko out for ?ú7.5/8m is a good deal considering we had 4 years of his career and he had effectively 16 months left on his contract. Hopefully that money will be put towards the two new forwards we will require in the summer.

    Pienaar going out on loan would have made sense had we secured Krasic but after that fell through it seems baffling that Levy reiginited the deal and allowed Everton to take him on loan. Having said that it may have smoothed the way in allowing Saha out of his contract so that may explain that one. Just hope it doesnt come back to bite us with injuries through the back end of the season.

    Ryan Nelsen is short term, obviously just to bulk numbers up. I personally wouldnt take up the option on him regardless of performance. In the summer we have Caulker coming back and he needs to be intergrated into the first team squad. Hopefully in the summer we will see the departure of Bassong on a permanent deal alongside Nelsen which will free up space within the squad defensively and create more room within the wage budget for perhaps a long term centre half/versatile defender.

    I think that the CL money in the main is being put aside to help with the Stadium plans to be honest and provided we make the 2-3 key signings in the summer to help compliment the squad, then I have no problem with that being the case and carrying on with our potential CL earnings next season. if it means we are going to suffer less hardship financially during the building of the stadium then to me its all good.

    Overall its been a reasonable window in my opinion although I wouldn't have allowed Pienaar to go but realistically we should be ok.

    I hope that the Krasic deal can potentially be resurrected in the summer at a reduced rate by comparison to their permanent deal or alternatively go after Marin. Couple that with the signing of a couple of forwards and this squad can really achieve anything. It will be able to play a number of systems with ease given the options and players available.
     
  3. Jordinho

    Jordinho Steve Archibald Staff Member

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    If ITK is to be believed, one of them actually looks like he could be, transfers are all Levy. Harry just keeps asking for more players. He's a bit like a kid in a toy store really, but in the end he sticks with his favorites.
     
  4. The Moonlit Knight

    The Moonlit Knight Banned

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    On my horse, it's very high
    It's weakened in the transfer window, but only because of Corluka's departure. And he wasn't regarded as first team by Harry anyway.

    Getting money for Pav was a good piece of business and Saha, even at 33, is as good as Pav is. Either way both are 4th choice forwards.

    Nelsen is there as cover, and has a good few years of Premiership experience behind him. I wouldn't expect him anywhere near the first team unless we were struck with serious injuries, but I'd also say the same regarding Bassong.

    Pienaar's departure won't change much, as he hardly featured.

    My biggest concerns are we have inadequate cover now in both full back positions, and for the right side of midfield.
     
  5. indianspur

    indianspur Guest

    Danny Rose is decent cover for BAE
     
  6. Libero

    Libero Steve Hodge

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    Good MLK, I actually forgot about Corluka who I wouldn't have let go either and actually would have given him more game time through the coming weeks to give Walker a little break now and then in order to keep his enthusiasm up and give him a little fight for his place.
     
  7. Sandman

    Sandman Mido

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    I agree, but then In the summer with the return of Naughton who can cover all those three positions and Caulker the squad is back to where it was, but younger, cheaper and arguably more talented. The question is, why did we loan out Bassong and Piennar to aid others and weaken ourselves? was it just to save money on their wages? seems so. Neither deal seems to have a clause in it to buy like Corluka's does.
     
  8. Jordinho

    Jordinho Steve Archibald Staff Member

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    We have a very good core of players

    Friedel, Cudicini (Gomes)
    Walker, Kaboul, Dawson, King, Gallas, Ekotto (Nelsen)
    Lennon, Parker, Sandro, Modric, Bale, Kranjcar
    Defoe, Ade, VDV, Saha

    We also have some younger players that can fill the bench in Gio, Rose, Livermore and others in case of real emergency. There's even Huddlestone, but I don't expect to see much of him this season.

    We still have a few players to shift, but getting Pav out for such a good price is a great start. Corluka, Bassong, Gio, Jenas, Bentley and Gomes will (should) all leave in the summer with Naughton and Caulker to come back. That will give us a squad of just over 20 senior players, giving us room to add some top players. Importantly we're also getting rid of aging players earning sacks of money for doing very little.

    Again, if ITK is to be believed, we're working hard on players like Remy, Hazard, Verthongen, Leandro and Krul. We know we bid around ?ú20 million for Remy and ?ú17 million has been mentioned for Leandro. There's also Ade. I'm sure there other names as well, but if we get one quality addition in each department this summer it's looking REALLY good.
     
    Last edited: 1 Feb 2012
  9. VolSpur

    VolSpur Ramon Vega

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    Both Fullback positions seem to be a concern now for natural cover, but we have the talent specifically Livermore, Bale, Sandro to cover effectively.

    Rose to me, is inept. This is just based off his last game and a few times he's come on recently that i can recall.

    When he's on, for some reason, might be cause harry says so, he plays way to high up the pitch with no disregard for defending in the least. Against Watford he was woeful and seemed to always let they're wide forward to run in behind him.
     
  10. africanspurs

    africanspurs Justin Edinburgh

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    Did adam smith go back out on loan?
     
  11. africanspurs

    africanspurs Justin Edinburgh

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    just had a look at the league table,

    nice.

    have to say that in their own way , alot of it is down to the whole squad which would include the players we lost sadly
     
  12. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Pedro Mendes

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    Yes, Leeds I believe (joining Townsend)

    Incidentally they have just fired their manager
     
  13. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Pedro Mendes

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    I fairly pleased with the window myself. Not delighted or blown away, but we have made some astute moves IMHO.

    The squad has Changed as follows

    GK

    Friedel
    Cudicini
    Gomes

    Defence
    Walker
    Corluka - GONE
    Kaboul
    Gallas
    King
    Bassong - REPLACED BY NELSEN
    Dawson
    Assou Ekotto
    Rose

    Midfield
    Huddlestone
    Parker
    Modric
    Sandro
    Livermore
    Kranjcar
    Bale
    Lennon
    Pienaar - GONE

    Forwards
    VDV
    Adebayor
    Defoe
    Pavlyuchenko - REPLACED BY SAHA
    Dos Santos

    Considering Pienaar and Corluka simply didnt get a look in whatsoever, is it a real loss to have them leave?
    Corluka didnt even get in to replace Walker ahead of Livermore! And Pienaar couldnt buy a game. I suspect its simply that neither suited the team anymore, and so stood little chance of getting games.

    We know Bassong has wanted a move for a while, and when he has had the odd appearance he hasnt looked especially assured. Nelsen is a very experienced and IMHO much underatted defender (who also possesses leadership credentials). As a reserve I think he is a better option than Bassong.

    Saha is a very good footballer and is much more suited to our style of play than Pavlyuchenko. Given that he is a better fit to the team, meaning we can maintain continuity in our (winning) playing style I see this as an improvement. And as with Nelsen is experienced and so a good option to have in reserve.

    Also as with Nelsen I dont hold as much concern with regards to fitness as I would if they were to be first team regulars. Lets be honest, these guys will likely get only a handful of games during the rest of the season, or see the odd 20 minutes from the bench. With this in mind I think they should be fine and dont think it fair to hammer them on the basis of fitness.

    All in all I think we are a little better off.

    Then there is the other angle to consider. The summer. In the summer we will be (hopefully!) a CL team again, for the second time in 3 years. We will also be in a position where we have managed the squad into a position of being essentially a blank canvas - ripe for improvement. Following 2 profitable windows, where we shipped out dead wood and cleared much of the wage bill.

    In the summer we will look like this:

    GK
    1.Friedel
    2.Cudicini
    3.Gomes

    Defence
    4.Walker
    5.Kaboul
    6.Gallas
    7.King
    8.Dawson
    9.Assou Ekotto
    10.Rose

    Midfield
    11.Huddlestone
    12.Parker
    13.Modric
    14.Sandro
    15.Livermore
    16.Kranjcar
    17.Bale
    18.Lennon

    Forwards
    19.VDV
    20.Defoe
    21.Dos Santos

    I would imagine Dos Santos and Gomes are certainties to leave, and am working on the assumption loans will not return to the squad.

    Im also envisaging Caulker and Naughton to join the squad.

    That leaves 4 squad places to work on the front line/forwards. At a point when we have shifted loads off of the wage bill and should have money in the bank.

    All in all I get the sense we are working towards a much better team by the start of the next season.
     
  14. billyiddo

    billyiddo Chris Jones Staff Member

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    think we are now in a good position going in to the summer to be able to add to the squad without having to worry too much about finding room for them (25 man rule)

    Pav has gone, Saha & Adebayor could also leave in the summer = 2 spaces

    Pienaar, Bassong and Corluka get the chance to impress out on loan and possibly move permanently = 3 spaces


    i know this is going off on a bit of a tangent African - but for sometime now i think the 25 man squad rule coming in has hampered us in the market - this summer i believe (hope) we will be in a position to be able to go out and buy the players we need for the squad without having to move others on to make space. If we get 3rd i genuinely believe we will move swiftly in the market.

    our squad isn't perfect now, but we didn't need to sign anyone for the first team and overall not too much has changed in the squad - we have swapped Bassong with Nelson and let Pienaar go who doesn't really feature (we also have Falque and Gio for the wings in moments of desperation, huddlestone to return + the emerging Livermore for the centre) and replaced Pav with a much better fit for the team in Saha
     
  15. Rossi22

    Rossi22 Pedro Mendes

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    Flavour of the month
    Gio's been a certainty to keave for about 3 years now :lol:
     
  16. Kingdawson

    Kingdawson Banned

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    Good thread AS. Ok i look at it like this...................

    1) Saha in and Pav out = A 6.5-7 out of 10 for me. I'm a fan of Saha but i pray his fitness will be good these next few months. Pav is a nothing player and we'll lose absolutely nothing with his departure imo so yeah i'm mildly happy with this one.

    2) Corluka out = 3 out of 10 for me. Poor decsion to let a player go when we do not have another natural rb in the squad. Charlie will always be a class rb in my eyes and i hope he tears the German League up. The reason it even gets a 3 is because i'm also happy with either Kaboul or Gallas playing there.

    3) Pienaar leaving = 1 out of 10. Lamest decision ever. We pick up injuries regularly (especially in midfield) and are now down to the bare bones and whats more it was so so unnecessary. We now have no player in the squad that can play on either wing and is very good defensively to call from the bench if we're leading. We now have to rely on Giovani Dos Santos, a player that Arry has stated time and time again that his heads not in it and he really has to move on. He's the only player on the bench that provides genuine pace down the wings (even though it's painfully obvious he can't play on the wing in a 4-4-2). In a 4-3-3 though? hmmmm well theres hope.

    4) Bassong out and Nelson in = 4-10. More unhappy then happy for sure. We're relying on a player thats injury record is seriously bad. I rated Bassong and tbh i rate Nelson VERY highly when fit. He's very smart and doesn't suffer from lapses of concentration BUT CAN HE STAY FIT?
     
  17. Kingdawson

    Kingdawson Banned

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    Falque has gone to Southampton on loan.
     
  18. africanspurs

    africanspurs Justin Edinburgh

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    stellar post nayim, nice.

    your reasoning is correct but i think there could be many right answers to this question and all of them be different

    for instance, yes we have trimmed the squad and removed players that rarely featured but if you look at the squad, we are light in the wingers department. could we have done something about that? maybe. so right now we face liklehood of various 'wonky' formations (which i like but i feel its important we have two strikers in it)...where this season alot of our success has come due to the performances of our wingers

    i think the main issue for me is that if we had a back to lennon and bale..it would take three injuries to eradicate our wing play. now its just two..and both players tend to have injury spell frequently if history is to point the way

    what i do like coming from that is that we now wil see Niko play more. THANK GHod for how things have worked out there.

    Then there is the defender area......charlie? i'm actually very dissapointed with that and can only assume that its something that happened behind the scenes where he let them know he was very unhappy and they did him a service and let him leave. but we have no back up now for walker that will still leave us with enough CB coverage to overcome injuries to king , gallas, or dawson. kaboul would now be the makeshift RB cover.

    the only plus side is that charlie never really featured so intangibles and training aside it would be hard to quantify how much he has helped us this season if you get my meaning.

    bassong? he actually got used a significant amount of times for the last orders at the bar type player, in which case it means his position was infact needed. he was young athletic and dirty when he needed to be. good CB cover.....we've replaced him with nelsen, an experienced CB.......i know nothing of him to give a true opinion. he could be a good defender in our team and system , who knows.......

    but to get rid of two defenders that were young and in their prime respectively, that could come in and do a job to uefa qualification and even Cl level (yes charlie and bassong DID get us top 4 AND set records people) and replace them only with one ageing player? its dicey but i'll back harry's play

    up front? i am more than happy with what we did there

    all in all this window coudl definately have been better....but i am not really upset by it. i feel this is a reality we were always going to have to deal with. i dont have my head in the clouds thinking that EVERYONE in our squad needs to be top 4 quality. quite frankly thats flimflam. but i did hope we could keep the squad we had , get rid of the waste men and replace them with good value players
     
  19. billyiddo

    billyiddo Chris Jones Staff Member

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    oh yea
     
  20. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Pedro Mendes

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    Just reading over the transfer rumour thread (gave up last night at about 9) an stumbled across this:

    JJetset nailed it

    Ok here it is people.
    Krasnic was off as he didnt want a loan. After i posted about Lazio it suddenly was back on again but unfortunately didnt happen.
    Pienaar will now stay. [OK, got this one wrong bit it was last minute action so Ill forgive it - Harry said as much as well]
    Saha (from leftfield) loan in also Ryan Nelson loan.
    Bassong gone to Wolves on loan.
    Pav has been sold (sorry Hottie).
    Corluka loaned.

    And then followed up later with this:
    Here is his ITK for the summer:

    Look at what we are doing short term and then salivate over the players we are trying to bring in.
    Remy big bid went in today but got knocked back but is good for the summer
    verthonghen- lined up
    hazard is up to the player but we are in with a really really good shout
    Leandro - on again off again every day


    The last few windows have been excellent for clearing out and replacing players with cheaper and better players. We want to buy the next superstars not loan them.

    If I were to give him credibility I would say it backs up the point I made above
     

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