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The glorious march to CL qualification

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by 90291Spur, 9 Aug 2018.

  1. greatwhitenorf

    greatwhitenorf Mido

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    Be nice to CL for next year.

    In addition to our huge co-jones and co-ckerels, we're sporting a massive co-efficient in the UEFA club table. Gotta keep that number swelling.
     
  2. Kandi1977

    Kandi1977 Ian Walker

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    Still fairly certain we'll end up in the 3rd seeded group.
     
  3. greatwhitenorf

    greatwhitenorf Mido

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    It's a close run thing to hit pot two, but we have a chance to further swell our co-efficient and penetrate pot two.

    We're in 18th with a codpiece-straining 75 points and only lose the 9 points earned in the 14/15 season. We'll rise past clubs that will drop far more points for their 14/15 record - Napoli and Shaktar for sure - and enter in the second pot.

    If - big if at this moment - we were to advance to CL final, we'd pass Dortmund. But if Ajax beat us, they could move ahead and drop us back to 17th.

    There's also the possiblity of clubs above not qualifying for CL next year. Chelsea and Arsenal are at risk. Sevilla is in a tough scrap for fourth, as is Roma.
     
    Last edited: 30 Apr 2019
    harr1984 likes this.
  4. Hootnow

    Hootnow Mauricio Taricco

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    So other than you, me, Nayim and all of their fans, nobody remembers them winning it?

    Even if that were true (I'm sure it isn't), as I said before, who really cares? Football is not about getting fans of other clubs to remember what major trophies you've won. If that is the case, why the hell do any of us support Tottenham? What do people remember we've won? Why do we all support anyone other than the Manchester clubs, Juve, Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid?

    By that measure, a good portion of the people who could remember the last time we won a major trophy are now in their 60s minimum....

    In terms of CL winners, I can remember 1999 cos of its significance in British football. I can remember 2005 because, well, its obvious. I can remember that Real won 3 of the past 4. And that Man Utd won in the late 2000s? Other than that, I don't remember who won the CL 6 years ago. Or the league. Or the FA cup. Or EL. I couldn't tell you who won those trophies 25 years ago or 50 years ago either. I'm sure those fans don't care about that and I don't really know why they should care that me, a random Spurs fan, has no recollection that they won those particular trophies?

    And in terms of the EL, I couldn't tell you specific winners. But I can tell you Seville have absolutely cleaned up in the last 10 years and Atletico have picked up a couple as well. Chelsea and Man Utd 1 each, I think Benefica won it one year? Fulham amazingly got to the final one year, as did Boro. So really, not all that different in terms of memory vs the CL.
     
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  5. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Nayim

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    How many Utd fans do you think are sitting there having the conversation "Hey, remember that time we won the Europa league?"

    Id suggest it would be very very few, and it was only a couple of years ago (16/17).

    Now how many do you suppose look back at 99 and 08? I would suggest many many more.

    Of course its unproveable, but for me thats the likelihood.


    I had to check, I had it in my head the EUROPA league final wasnt actually after the league season, ala League cup. Turns out it was by 4 days.
     
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  6. Gutter Boy

    Gutter Boy Tim Sherwood

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    The CL profile has dropped considerably since it stopped being on terrestrial tv a few years ago. It no longer has water cooler level of interest
     
  7. Hootnow

    Hootnow Mauricio Taricco

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    It is definitely a major ballache to play on a Saturday after Thursday but my memory of it is that you end up playing most of your games on Sunday. One of the major complaints is how often we end up playing on a Sunday, from memory anyway. I may well be wrong though.

    I'm still not that sure how playing Thursday and then Sunday is so different to Wednesday and then Saturday.

    I don't think I or anyone else has ever claimed that it compares to the CL. The CL has more prestige, more money, has better teams, helps you attract better players (though, having said that, in the now 4 seasons total we've been in the CL, who have we actually attracted?) and would be infinitely better to win. I and literally everyone would much rather be in the CL than the EL, especially if you actually have a chance to win the CL.

    Do you not think that at least part of the reason the EL affects teams in it more than the teams in the CL....is because those in the CL are better teams anyway? Hence why they finished 1st-4th in the preceding season and not 5th-7th?

    I think part of my annoyance with how it is spoken about is the perceived dismissal of firstly Spurs fans, who turn their noses up at the competition that arguably counts amongst our greatest moments and when we've won 2 trophies in 25 years and English fans in general, who seemingly uniquely in Europe seem to think its a waste of time. And the hyperbole that comes with it.

    I mean, crappy stadium on a crappy pitch against a crappy team? Why? Again, I've had a quick look at the teams we played in the EL in between the Redknapp CL season and the Poch ones. Dortmund, Fiorentina, Monaco, Anderlecht, Qarabag, Partizan Belgrade, Besiktas, Benefica, Anzhi, Basel, Inter, Lyon, Maribor, Panathinaikos, Lazio, Rubin Kazan, Gent have all also been in the CL in the last 10 seasons. That means out of 26 teams we've faced in the EL in that period, only 9 haven't competed at least once in the CL in the last 10 seasons, 2 of whom are Hearts and Shamrock Rovers. And I've excluded teams that were competing in the CL playoffs only.

    So the exchange between the 2 competitions is not as closed as people seem to think it is. Fiorentina or Benefica don't suddenly have great pitches or great stadia the moment they end up in the CL rather then the EL.
     
  8. Hootnow

    Hootnow Mauricio Taricco

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    Of course they wouldn't. Its what happens when you're by some distance the most successful club in the country. If Spurs had won 20 league titles and 3 European cups, as well as however many FA and league cups they've won, most of those in living memory as well, then yeah, I'd 400% be far more concerned about those victories than the EL. If Tottenham did THE treble, our fans would (rightly) never stop going on about it. Its a sensational achievement, the EL pales in comparison.

    When your club has won 17 trophies in total through its history, I'd imagine it would be a bit more of a bigger deal for us. Its kind of how Man Utd have won more in the post Fergie period, despite being a circus, than we have in 30 years. Yet we're (rightly) very happy and their fans are (rightly) in absolute uproar. The expectations at the two clubs are wholly different.

    My question though is what exactly is that supposed to prove or what it changes to what I've said? I've never said the EL is as big as the CL. I've never said its as famous or that fans would care about it as much as the CL.

    I've said that I don't see why on earth fans or clubs should care about what other fans think about their victories. The EL is nothing like as good as the CL, yet Im sure their fans had an absolutely amazing time getting to the final and winning it. Ive never once said that winning one is the same as winning the other.

    I also don't know what that last sentence is supposed to prove either. I don't know the date of this season's EL final either. To be honest, I also don't know the date of the CL final, the FA cup final or even the exact day of the last round of fixtures and, while I'm not as involved with Spurs and football as most on here maybe, I'm more switched on than the average fan.
     
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  9. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Nayim

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    You are right, Sundays were more regular. I remember a Thursday game miles away and a 12 KO saturday away at Chelsea one year. We asked for an extra few hours delay as we only got back Friday lunchtime and got told where to go. Was probably 10 years ago now and Im still tinkled off about it. Obviously we were flat and insipid and ultimately lost.

    Playing Sunday is always playing catch up, youre always behind and there is definitely a psychological element to that. Its tiring.

    You also end up with regularly unfavourable fixture congestion, with weeks that end up running like the Christmas schedule. Especially if you do well in the domestic cups.

    Yes, teams can qualify for the CL sometimes, it doesnt change the fact they arent particularly good and their facilities are much lesser than the more premier teams you find regularly in the CL.

    Fiorentina, Benfica, Lazio - yes of course. Nice stadiums, big teams etc.

    Quarabag? CL or not, thats a hole. And they are a limited side. And playing them is arduous. Fly to Azerbaijan, stay in a hotel, play on a sub standard pitch against a team that is largely inferior. For them its a massive game and they are up for it, so despite the gulf in class its a long fought and aruous game. And almost certainly you come away from it with knocks. Then you travel back the next day and have to prepare for a PL game - knowing its "must win" because the other teams won Saturday and now you need to make up ground, and youre completely fatigued by it all.

    As I said, its a suite of smaller factors that add up to one huge stumbling block. Its not like you can point to "take out one of the knock out rounds and itll be absolutely fine". It is literally the fabric of the competition.

    I can completely accept this may be unique to England. Though I would suggest it is because the PL is unique. Not in the way that its particularly special, but in the make up of the league and its rewards.

    Top 4 really is the be-all end-all for clubs. Settle yourself there and you can close the door behind you to the rest of the league. The riches are such you can basically push everyone else back. We know, we have spend 15 years trying to bridge the gap. And the whole time the EUROPA competition has been far more a hinderance than help. It holds teams back, there is no question in my mind.

    As I said before, look at the performance in the league post EUROPA tie. And post CL tie. Youve been digging into the details, take a look and see the difference.

    Ill bet you will find post CL games teams generally perform just fine/as expected. And post EUROPA they most certainly do not. Why might that be?
     
  10. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Nayim

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    Its nothing to do with that. Its to do with them overlooking it completely. Which most sides would. Same as the League cup (and now increasingly the FA cup).

    My point was that fans of clubs who have won these things wont care either - as well as fans of other clubs. Thats my point.

    Had we won it in 17, do you think anyone here would actually give a particular brick now? Mention it? Reminisce about it? I dont. A great jolly for those there, but thats it.



    The last sentence was just an aside. I had it in mind that the EUROPA cup final preceded the end of the season (it didnt), as though like the League cup it really is secondary to other things. The FA cup and CL finals are all after the season, as showcase events. Turns out the EUROPA is as well and I didnt even notice.


    You argue yourself, with conviction, that it is not as good, is secondary - and yet have a pop at people for holding similar views? What exactly is the issue?

    This idea that people "dismiss it"? Thats vague, what does that even mean?

    I and many others appreciate it for what it is - a trap. a marathon. a handicap. Before its a worthy competition. Thats not dismisal, thats realism.

    And none of that is to say I think the CL is especially great either. I actually find it boring 99% of the time. The idea of being in it doesnt appeal to me because its "better" than EUROPA, or for the kudos, or because it inspires passion.

    It appeals to me because its the top table. We get to test ourselves against the best.

    And it appeals to me because it is the one thing that enables a club to really go up a class. Regular CL participation will make us title challengers. Thats what appeals to me.

    EUROPA? Basically none of the above. Cost/benefit is completely out of balance.
     
  11. r-u-s-x

    r-u-s-x Young-Pyo Lee

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    This is not my experience - maybe in the early rounds but the later rounds garner as much interest as always.
     
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  12. Kenyan Spur

    Kenyan Spur Luke Young

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    We NEED CL for next season, PERIOD.
    We have a spanking new stadium that needs CL, NOT EL.
    After we messed up against WH, we need at least 3 points for top 4 and 4 points for top 3.
    We have to get these, even at the expense of progressing in the CL semifinal.
    With our walking wounded squad, we have very little chance of winning the CL this season.
     
  13. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Michael Carrick

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    2 PTS will do it.
     
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  14. jaysea67

    jaysea67 Espen Baardsen

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    The points for the 14/15 season are still included for next season's ranking. They don't drop away until the season after, so I'm afraid you're a bit premature!
     
  15. Dicko

    Dicko Eidur Gudjohnsen

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    I would agree to some extent. When you think back to the days of United beating Bayern in that final the average person would find themselves watching Champions League games on TV. Nowadays it seems like you have to be a fan of football and go seek it out on a Sky channel which you have subscribed to because you like sports, same with BT, or you are a die hard and searched for a river to watch your team.

    You don't get people like my parents talking about how they saw the game last night, instead my old man says things like "I heard Spurs got lucky last night" after he has read the paper the next day!
     
  16. galeforce

    galeforce Teddy Sheringham

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    With the games on BT sport I think most people have access, it's practically given away with all broadband and cellular deals these days.
     
  17. Dicko

    Dicko Eidur Gudjohnsen

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    My parents have BT box but rarely venture past channel 4. My Dad was shocked when I showed him I could watch a Spurs game there once... Asked me if we are paying extra for this!!
    Doesn't reflect well on them I know but sure there must still be load of people out there that still only watch strictly and Britain's got talent and never leave terrestrial
     
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  18. AdamB

    AdamB Jack Jull

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  19. Glenda's Legs

    Glenda's Legs Dean Richards

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    A few years ago, before he passed away, I showed my dad how he could get sky sports news and radio 5 live through his tv so he could follow match updates. But he still stuck with the teletext equivalent ( Red button).
     
  20. lurker of old

    lurker of old Luke Young

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    We all better pray that Sissoko can last for the next 3 games.........above all Bournemouth and Ajax....
     

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