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Summer 2018 transfer thread

So Cloake is a PR by trade. Well, B2B journo and PR, which is a bit like dividing one’s time between poaching and gamekeeping. And Law has a marcomms background too. Which makes the intemperance of the letter all the more interesting, it’s not accidental.

Expect you’re right about the dynamic between trust and club. It must be tough being a self-appointed channel for fan rage when most of us are pretty happy.

'Most of us' just seems wrong. The folks here are vastly outnumbered by the Twitter folks, most of whom seem upset to varying degrees. TFC is split down the middle between aggressive Levy cultists and Levy lynch mobs. R/Coys is full of American happy clappers who swoon like teenage girls over a tweet from the club celebrating July 4th, so they're fine, but VitalSpurs seems depressed as well.

Only a small percentage (maybe 1%) of the club's fans go to games, but it's likely that there's some dissent there too.

On the whole, the Trust are doing their job to the best of their ability. Hats off to them.
 
'Most of us' just seems wrong. The folks here are vastly outnumbered by the Twitter folks, most of whom seem upset to varying degrees. TFC is split down the middle between aggressive Levy cultists and Levy lynch mobs. R/Coys is full of American happy clappers who swoon like teenage girls over a tweet from the club celebrating July 4th, so they're fine, but VitalSpurs seems depressed as well.

Only a small percentage (maybe 1%) of the club's fans go to games, but it's likely that there's some dissent there too.

On the whole, the Trust are doing their job to the best of their ability. Hats off to them.

Bitter, angry partisanship is what Twitter and TFC are for, surely. Can’t read too much into that.
 
Bitter, angry partisanship is what Twitter and TFC are for, surely. Can’t read too much into that.

Not going to argue about that, but it just doesn't jive with the idea that the fans are mostly happy. They're not - Now, they might not be *unhappy*, like I am, but there's a grey area in between where I'd wager most people are at the moment. And the Trust captured that, imo.
 
Not going to argue about that, but it just doesn't jive with the idea that the fans are mostly happy. They're not - Now, they might not be *unhappy*, like I am, but there's a grey area in between where I'd wager most people are at the moment. And the Trust captured that, imo.

Unhappy about how the club is run in general, or about particular aspects of how it is run? I don't think I've met a single Spurs fan over the past four five years who aren't generally happy with the project we have going now - sure, some are complaining about how we're not good enough to get over the line in semi-finals, some over how we don't splash the cash on mega stars in the transfer window, some of the complaints are about the modernisation in football in general and not really about Spurs (and the money thrown around), and recently the increase in ticket prices. I can understand that the rise in ticket prices are difficult to cope with, and I'm not going to argue for or against it, but in general, how the club has developed over the past few years, how economically sound we're run (a point to be genuinly proud of, in my opinion), how we've become competitive year in year out (after a long period of basically being the laughing stock of the league), have a fantastic new stadium almost ready, have the best manager we've had for ages and ages, a great set of players playing after a philosophy along the lines of the historical identity of the club - I just don't see how anyone can be generally unhappy about how the club is run, or call out anyone who say that they are "happy clappers". How could it have been run any better? Would it be better to have a rich oligarch pump money into the club? Wouldn't we just complain about that too after a while, if we don't win one or more trophy each season?

I think we're on the right path here, we're doing things our own way, have a fudging amazing manager, we're economically extremely well run, and sure, we need to just get over the final little bump to get to the very top - but we're nearly there, and remember who we're competing against - money doped clubs who generally throw cash at anything with two legs. We should have course compete with that by getting some rich sheikh in, hire Mourinho for a year, Hiddink the second etc - get a few trophies here and there - would that please everyone?

There will always be people unhappy about certain aspects of how the club is run, of course, but I just don't think Spurs fans in general are unhappy or even neutral to what is going on at Spurs now - and if they are, maybe they should do a rain check and think back to the 90's, how awesome it was to see Andy Sinton not getting past his man on the left wing and Ian Walker picking the 5th ball out of the net for the umptienth time that season. :p
 
So Cloake is a PR by trade. Well, B2B journo and PR, which is a bit like dividing one’s time between poaching and gamekeeping. And Law has a marcomms background too. Which makes the intemperance of the letter all the more interesting, it’s not accidental.

Expect you’re right about the dynamic between trust and club. It must be tough being a self-appointed channel for fan rage when most of us are pretty happy.

That’s my issue actually
Either their very brick at their jobs or their deliberately writing this way... and not getting anywhere
 
Unhappy about how the club is run in general, or about particular aspects of how it is run? I don't think I've met a single Spurs fan over the past four five years who aren't generally happy with the project we have going now - sure, some are complaining about how we're not good enough to get over the line in semi-finals, some over how we don't splash the cash on mega stars in the transfer window, some of the complaints are about the modernisation in football in general and not really about Spurs (and the money thrown around), and recently the increase in ticket prices. I can understand that the rise in ticket prices are difficult to cope with, and I'm not going to argue for or against it, but in general, how the club has developed over the past few years, how economically sound we're run (a point to be genuinly proud of, in my opinion), how we've become competitive year in year out (after a long period of basically being the laughing stock of the league), have a fantastic new stadium almost ready, have the best manager we've had for ages and ages, a great set of players playing after a philosophy along the lines of the historical identity of the club - I just don't see how anyone can be generally unhappy about how the club is run, or call out anyone who say that they are "happy clappers". How could it have been run any better? Would it be better to have a rich oligarch pump money into the club? Wouldn't we just complain about that too after a while, if we don't win one or more trophy each season?

I think we're on the right path here, we're doing things our own way, have a fudging amazing manager, we're economically extremely well run, and sure, we need to just get over the final little bump to get to the very top - but we're nearly there, and remember who we're competing against - money doped clubs who generally throw cash at anything with two legs. We should have course compete with that by getting some rich sheikh in, hire Mourinho for a year, Hiddink the second etc - get a few trophies here and there - would that please everyone?

There will always be people unhappy about certain aspects of how the club is run, of course, but I just don't think Spurs fans in general are unhappy or even neutral to what is going on at Spurs now - and if they are, maybe they should do a rain check and think back to the 90's, how awesome it was to see Andy Sinton not getting past his man on the left wing and Ian Walker picking the 5th ball out of the net for the umptienth time that season. :p

We’ve never ‘ad it so good

(I loved Andy Sinton)
 
If I were a Trust member, which I'm not, I would expect the Trust board members to represent / convey - in a professional manner - the views of the majority of their membership.
That may well be what the letter is doing but the alacrity with which the letter was published does not give the impression they had spent any time canvassing for member views. I think they've had this on the back burner since the ST prices were announced.
 
Given the window is now closed to incomings and the season underway, I think the Thread Thread should be closed/archived or whatever so that we can put the disappointment of the window behind us. I'm sure any outgoing transfer can be adequately picked up in specific player threads cant they?
 
Unhappy about how the club is run in general, or about particular aspects of how it is run?

Particular aspects of it, not the whole thing - namely, our decision to basically sleep through the window because penny-pinching won out over a bit of forward ambition. The rest of it is progressing nicely, so there isn't that much to be concerned about. Just this enduring failing of our chairman, amidst his generally above-average handling of other things.

I don't think I've met a single Spurs fan over the past four five years who aren't generally happy with the project we have going now - sure, some are complaining about how we're not good enough to get over the line in semi-finals, some over how we don't splash the cash on mega stars in the transfer window, some of the complaints are about the modernisation in football in general and not really about Spurs (and the money thrown around), and recently the increase in ticket prices.

Right, and that's my point. People are unhappy about many separate things, which is why the Trust was right to point them out. But I don't think they're unhappy in *general*, no.

Even me. I'd like ENIC to sell up, take their deserved profit and leave, but until then, as long as Poch is around, I don't mind too much. And I've given up expecting us to be ambitious in transfer windows - apparently that's now being construed as making no signings whatsoever, so for the sake of my mental health, I'm going to just stop. Levy can be Levy all he wants - Poch will fix the damage he causes with his penny-pinching.

I'm generally happy, but this window, I was and remain unhappy. And the Trust captured my feelings well, is all.

I just don't see how anyone can be generally unhappy about how the club is run, or call out anyone who say that they are "happy clappers". How could it have been run any better? Would it be better to have a rich oligarch pump money into the club? Wouldn't we just complain about that too after a while, if we don't win one or more trophy each season?

Would it better to have a rich oligarch fund us and make us win things? As long as he isn't a murderer or tyrant, yes. As for complaining about winning things, also yes - that's progress. If it came down to it, I'd prefer being unhappy over not having won enough to being unhappy over having won nothing at all.

We don't win prizes for being economically well-run. And we don't even pay a living wage to our employees (another one of Levy's failings, imo), so none of our penny-pinching actually filters down to the people that need it the most - likewise, we have the highest ticket prices in the league, so young people and poorer folks are shut out of our games.

I don't see what's to love about being 'economically well-run'. If we had a rich owner who pays all the staff above living wage and subsidizes tickets, among other things, those would be tangible benefits to the community, even if said owner was Levy-like in the transfer market. But right now, what is the tangible benefit? We play by a set of rules no one else plays by, and it's not a particularly moral stance, so what's great about it?

Not much, imo.

There will always be people unhappy about certain aspects of how the club is run, of course, but I just don't think Spurs fans in general are unhappy or even neutral to what is going on at Spurs now - and if they are, maybe they should do a rain check and think back to the 90's, how awesome it was to see Andy Sinton not getting past his man on the left wing and Ian Walker picking the 5th ball out of the net for the umptienth time that season. :p

I agree, I think people are generally satisfied. But they're unhappy with this specific window, I think, and the Trust summed up that unhappiness. That's all.

As for the 90's, one of the reasons I dislike that example is because it is a permanent lowering of our history - using the awful 90's as some benchmark that Spurs would be at sans Levy ignores the fact that the 90's were an anomaly - before the 90's, we were one of England's big four, and were an accomplished cup side with a rich pedigree for innovative, attacking football that was known across England.

Yes, the 90's were awful. But the years since have seen us win one League Cup in twenty years, which is actually one of our longest-ever trophy droughts. We were a bigger club once, than we are now. And we should be measuring ourselves against that - not against the 90's, which was 20 years ago and just sets low expectations for Levy.
 
Also, the fans on r/Coys are *definitely* happy clappers - if we got relegated, they would be saying 'calm down, y'all - this is all part of the plan! Levy wanted to give our squad players and academy a chance to shine! #baldgenius #LexLuthor #believeintheplan '.

These are the folks who were cheering like giddy kids when the club made a (probably bot-written) July 4th tweet - fawning over how great our 'front office' was for noticing Americans on their holy day, or something. :p They're pretty intense.
 
The 90’s was a football reset, the structure of the PL changed English league football forever, the game is completely determined by financial might ever since.

Eh. There's a tendency towards assuming that what presently exists is what will continue to exist in the future.

Football may evolve in all sorts of strange ways, especially in England. 50 years from now we could see a Premier League set up to ape the MLS, with no relegations, salary caps and a socialist system of revenue sharing and player ownership. Especially if the game grows in the US to the point where it overtakes the Premier League in terms of global popularity - over that timescale, it's certainly possible, especially given Brexit.

What is clear is that what we were in the 90's is still, for now, a historical anomaly. If, in another (say) two decades, the Premier League remains as dominated by financial might as it is now, *then* you can say that the 90's would have continued sans Levy. Otherwise, I think it's premature.
 
Eh. There's a tendency towards assuming that what presently exists is what will continue to exist in the future.

Football may evolve in all sorts of strange ways, especially in England. 50 years from now we could see a Premier League set up to ape the MLS, with no relegations, salary caps and a socialist system of revenue sharing and player ownership. Especially if the game grows in the US to the point where it overtakes the Premier League in terms of global popularity - over that timescale, it's certainly possible, especially given Brexit.

What is clear is that what we were in the 90's is still, for now, a historical anomaly. If, in another (say) two decades, the Premier League remains as dominated by financial might as it is now, *then* you can say that the 90's would have continued sans Levy. Otherwise, I think it's premature.

I’m sure it will change, but it’s massively relevant now.
 
I’m sure it will change, but it’s massively relevant now.

Right, it's relevant *now*, but not over the course of our history, imo. And if we're comparing ENIC's 20 years to what came before, we should be comparing them to the rest of our history, not to that sole 10 year period.
 
Right, it's relevant *now*, but not over the course of our history, imo. And if we're comparing ENIC's 20 years to what came before, we should be comparing them to the rest of our history, not to that sole 10 year period.

I think change relevant to predecessor and comparison with peers is all you can fairly grade them on.

What can we learn by comparing them to the ownership groups from before professionalism, minimum wage and an international transfer market when the goals, motivations and markers of success were so different?
 
Particular aspects of it, not the whole thing - namely, our decision to basically sleep through the window because penny-pinching won out over a bit of forward ambition. The rest of it is progressing nicely, so there isn't that much to be concerned about. Just this enduring failing of our chairman, amidst his generally above-average handling of other things.



Right, and that's my point. People are unhappy about many separate things, which is why the Trust was right to point them out. But I don't think they're unhappy in *general*, no.

Even me. I'd like ENIC to sell up, take their deserved profit and leave, but until then, as long as Poch is around, I don't mind too much. And I've given up expecting us to be ambitious in transfer windows - apparently that's now being construed as making no signings whatsoever, so for the sake of my mental health, I'm going to just stop. Levy can be Levy all he wants - Poch will fix the damage he causes with his penny-pinching.

I'm generally happy, but this window, I was and remain unhappy. And the Trust captured my feelings well, is all.



Would it better to have a rich oligarch fund us and make us win things? As long as he isn't a murderer or tyrant, yes. As for complaining about winning things, also yes - that's progress. If it came down to it, I'd prefer being unhappy over not having won enough to being unhappy over having won nothing at all.

We don't win prizes for being economically well-run. And we don't even pay a living wage to our employees (another one of Levy's failings, imo), so none of our penny-pinching actually filters down to the people that need it the most - likewise, we have the highest ticket prices in the league, so young people and poorer folks are shut out of our games.

I don't see what's to love about being 'economically well-run'. If we had a rich owner who pays all the staff above living wage and subsidizes tickets, among other things, those would be tangible benefits to the community, even if said owner was Levy-like in the transfer market. But right now, what is the tangible benefit? We play by a set of rules no one else plays by, and it's not a particularly moral stance, so what's great about it?

Not much, imo.



I agree, I think people are generally satisfied. But they're unhappy with this specific window, I think, and the Trust summed up that unhappiness. That's all.

As for the 90's, one of the reasons I dislike that example is because it is a permanent lowering of our history - using the awful 90's as some benchmark that Spurs would be at sans Levy ignores the fact that the 90's were an anomaly - before the 90's, we were one of England's big four, and were an accomplished cup side with a rich pedigree for innovative, attacking football that was known across England.

Yes, the 90's were awful. But the years since have seen us win one League Cup in twenty years, which is actually one of our longest-ever trophy droughts. We were a bigger club once, than we are now. And we should be measuring ourselves against that - not against the 90's, which was 20 years ago and just sets low expectations for Levy.

I don't know, man, money doping the club, just doesn't feel right to me. Buying, buying, buying players, throwing money at the best managers - I mean, you're bound to succeed at some point, but where's the "glory" in that? You just buy success, feels phony to me. But I don't know, maybe you're right, maybe we'd all enjoy that, as it's the way the game is going anyhow - but I like to think that winning the league the way we're trying to do it would just feel better. Then again, I guess our team is more or less full of mercenaries as well - football in general has gone a bit sour in that department.

I'd actually like it if the league at some point started owning its players, kind of like the NHL - you'd have a more even distribution of wealth, and competitiveness would come down to being smart with transfers/trading, as well as good coaching and strategies - instead of just buying your way to succes - would make the transfer market more about being smart and having a strategy, versus just having the most cash.
 
I don't know, man, money doping the club, just doesn't feel right to me. Buying, buying, buying players, throwing money at the best managers - I mean, you're bound to succeed at some point, but where's the "glory" in that? You just buy success, feels phony to me. But I don't know, maybe you're right, maybe we'd all enjoy that, as it's the way the game is going anyhow - but I like to think that winning the league the way we're trying to do it would just feel better. Then again, I guess our team is more or less full of mercenaries as well - football in general has gone a bit sour in that department.

There's no point to it, is all. There's nothing moral about what we do, and no reason to do it.

If we took care of the poorest-paid at our club, if we took care of our community, if we allowed young people and folks down on their luck to attend our games, if we were genuinely *fan-owned* - or at least had significant fan ownership - then this sort of self-imposed austerity model is justifiable, and moral.

In fact, if we were fan-owned and were that involved in our community, I would defend it as the only way we could possibly be run.

But we're not - we're just a useful asset for a billionaire in the Bahamas who refuses to pay tax and made his money shorting the pound on Black Wednesday, hurting the UK in the process. And worse yet, he's a billionaire who puts no money into his asset - the most singularly useless, worthless thing in football, the sort of contradictory owner only Spurs could have found.

And this billionaire has, as his public face, Levy - who runs the club in an above-average fashion, to be fair, but does little to make this ownership model particularly *moral* or inherently appealing. And he charges the highest ticket prices in the league for a summer window with absolutely no on-pitch ambition and no transfers, to boot.

So what's the point?

Football has gone the way of the billionaire owner - and the mercenary player. Just the way the game is these days. The real moral standing, the real 'glory', would come in breaking from the *ownership* model, not from the transfers or wages model.

I'd actually like it if the league at some point started owning its players, kind of like the NHL - you'd have a more even distribution of wealth, and competitiveness would come down to being smart with transfers/trading, as well as good coaching and strategies - instead of just buying your way to succes - would make the transfer market more about being smart and having a strategy, versus just having the most cash.

I'd like that too, tbh. I hope that ,in the future, English football moves towards the ironically socialist American model. It would mean a fairer chance for every club. :)
 
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