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Sugar Daddy - Yea or Nay?

Sugar Daddy?

  • Yea

    Votes: 26 40.6%
  • Nay

    Votes: 38 59.4%

  • Total voters
    64
Re B/C) : the impression im getting from a lot of people in here is that they want a Sugar Daddy to replace our current owners because they want us to be competing with Chelsea and City, and that you can't do that by breaking even. Arsenal are set up similar to ourselves - the same break even model, so it stands to reason that you/they wouldn't be happy to be in their shoes as it's pretty much what we are doing currently - if you are happy to be in their shoes then id say give it a little while till we're in the new stadium and we'll be close to a level playing field with them and Liverpool as we'll have similar finances - but i think the problem is some of you aren't prepared to wait that long and would rather have success bought for you.
 
im not old enough to remember the UEFA cup win in 84 sadly, first I remember was 91 (should have been 87), the league cup isn't a major trophy imo

UEFA was 30 years ago so you must have just missed it. I barely remember it myself now. The league cup is considered to be a major honour though.

Anyway I guess your point is you'd like to win more which is fair enough. Who wouldn't, but the end does not justify the means in my book.
 
Re B/C) : the impression im getting from a lot of people in here is that they want a Sugar Daddy to replace our current owners because they want us to be competing with Chelsea and City, and that you can't do that by breaking even. Arsenal are set up similar to ourselves - the same break even model, so it stands to reason that you/they wouldn't be happy to be in their shoes as it's pretty much what we are doing currently - if you are happy to be in their shoes then id say give it a little while till we're in the new stadium and we'll be close to a level playing field with them and Liverpool as we'll have similar finances - but i think the problem is some of you aren't prepared to wait that long and would rather have success bought for you.

Problem is, our stadium will not be built for another 5 years. You're talking another 5-10 years to pay it off. It was only Wenger's towing the line and not spending that kept them afloat. They would have been in deep trouble had they not consistently qualified for the CL. We all like to mock him, but he did a pretty damn good job keeping them in the top 4 for so long. Assuming we are using the same model as they are, would that mean we would have to do as they did and qulaify every year to turn a profit? And do you think we would be capable of doing that on an even smaller net spend that we currently operate under now?
 
Problem is, our stadium will not be built for another 5 years. You're talking another 5-10 years to pay it off. It was only Wenger's towing the line and not spending that kept them afloat. They would have been in deep trouble had they not consistently qualified for the CL. We all like to mock him, but he did a pretty damn good job keeping them in the top 4 for so long. Assuming we are using the same model as they are, would that mean we would have to do as they did and qulaify every year to turn a profit? And do you think we would be capable of doing that on an even smaller net spend that we currently operate under now?

I don't think we'll have based our repayments on qualifying for a competition we've been in once. Likleyhood is we won't be taking on anywhere near as much debt as Arsenal did anyway, going by those who seem to know what they're talking about in the Stadium Thread.
 
Liverpool were 2nd last because Chelsea and Man U we're rebuilding, with Suarez they took advantage of that


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
And how often is everyone at their best? It helped us that Chelsea and Liverpool were off the pace in 11/12 and that City weren't in the equation in 09/10
 
I don't think we'll have based our repayments on qualifying for a competition we've been in once. Likleyhood is we won't be taking on anywhere near as much debt as Arsenal did anyway, going by those who seem to know what they're talking about in the Stadium Thread.

Something else I have just remembered that I forgot to mention; the likes of Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea buy players from Liverpool and Arsenal. First of all, because they think they can add something to their squad, but more importantly to weaken their rivals, just as Bayern do every year to Borussia Dortmund.
 
Something else I have just remembered that I forgot to mention; the likes of Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea buy players from Liverpool and Arsenal. First of all, because they think they can add something to their squad, but more importantly to weaken their rivals, just as Bayern do every year to Borussia Dortmund.

You are right there. The first move by any fossil fuel funded club in England has been to destabilise the weaker clubs above them. This is how Adebayor ended up on silly wages at City, because they were desperate to poach players from Arsenal and gain the upper hand. If it happened to us we would go in for Sterling or Sturridge.
 
Something else I have just remembered that I forgot to mention; the likes of Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea buy players from Liverpool and Arsenal. First of all, because they think they can add something to their squad, but more importantly to weaken their rivals, just as Bayern do every year to Borussia Dortmund.

You aren't telling me anything i don't already know - of course it's easy to do it the Sugar Daddy way, doesn't make it impossible to achieve without one
 
Do you think had England not sacked Capello we'd have had our post Jan slump? We didn't HAVE to buy players in Jan - it would have been a bonus, we weren't faced with an injury crisis and we had decent back up players already here not being used. whereas on the other hand you DO expect the manager to remain focussed and continue doing his job under those circumstances. That's the crux of the issue for me - ask anyone outside of Spurs fans why we ****ed up that season and i don't think many would put it down to a lack of investment in the Jan window.


You are kind of on the right track with what i am infering - me personally yes i think we can get ourselves back in to that position with Levy in charge, but the point was more that a sugar daddy isn't the only way to be successful - you're not a fan of Levy, so surely by extension, in your view, there must be a good number of people out there who can run us on a similar model and do better than he has done before we reach a point where only a sugar daddy can improve us? Because if you do think a SD is the only way we can improve then that would suggest Levy is doing a mighty fine job by your own criteria...

No, you misunderstand me slightly. In my view, England or no England, securing Tevez and Cahill would have almost guaranteed us CL football at the least, and quite possibly a title challenge all the way through to May given the morale boost we would have received from those signings and the (probable) happiness Harry would have felt at being backed so spectacularly, along with a reciprocal sense of duty to the man who backed him (which is a natural human reaction) which would have stood us in good stead going into the whole Capello debacle and Harry's court case vindication. We didn't, we gave Harry Saha and Nelsen, and who can say how that affected his thought processes regarding the England job being more attractive than staying at a club where the chairman listened patiently to his pleas and then disdainfully threw him rejects and castaways with a dismissive sneer?

Harry was a tool to lose focus the way he did. However, Levy's utter disaster of a January window contributed mightily to what happened after that, and there's no denying it.

And that is my fundamental point. We may hit that once-in-a-decade opportunity again under Levy/Lewis, or another similarly tight-fisted, risk-averse chairman/owner combo who charge the fans an arm and a leg while putting nothing like the same money in themselves. But we will inevitably, inevitably blow it, because this tight-fistedness will leave us demoralized and without reinforcements again, in the same way it did in January 2012. We are where we are now (Sixth place on average) because the owners have bled every last drop of money from the fans to keep us here. Nothing has come from them, save for the 60 million quid that jimmyb eloquently talks about (which is two years of matchday income alone) That is not a mighty fine job, that is taking someone's money and spending it in a barely competent enough manner to keep them where their income suggests they should be. And when the chance comes to rise above our station, we will inevitably blow it because the owners are content to let us drift like this instead of backing our shot for the moon with their own cash, or with a bit of risk.

I have said this before, but that bare competence is all that keeps the majority of fans off ENIC's backs. When that evaporates (as it did this summer, for instance, and as it does regularly when the topic of managers comes up), the fans will ask why their enormous investments into their club (which is now run entirely on their infusions and their presence stirring commercial interest) are not leading to anything like a concurrent commitment from the owners, ownership of the club they love or even competent decisions. When that happens, this facade will come under a lot of strain.
 
Ah Dubai - as steadfast as you are in your opinion it's just not something i agree with, both on what the major problem of 11/12 was and what our hope of success is moving forward. I won't be swayed by hyperbole, others might ;)

Once in a decade? Twice under Redknapp finishing where our immediate aim lies and once each under Jol and AVB very narrowly missing out. I know you're probably refering to title challenges but the current goal which people say is beyond us is top 4, which with a bit of luck going our way could have been ours 5 out of the last 10 seasons. that's not scraping by in 6th where we should be as you have tried to dress it up as being nor would i call that bare competence when you consider the financial gap between us and the sides above and once we regroup and get our act together after the last season of regression i see no reason why we can't have a similar run of being consistent challengers to where we want to be - who knows, we might yeild better results this time around.
 
Ah Dubai - as steadfast as you are in your opinion it's just not something i agree with, both on what the major problem of 11/12 was and what our hope of success is moving forward. I won't be swayed by hyperbole, others might ;)

Once in a decade? Twice under Redknapp finishing where our immediate aim lies and once each under Jol and AVB very narrowly missing out. I know you're probably refering to title challenges but the current goal which people say is beyond us is top 4, which with a bit of luck going our way could have been ours 5 out of the last 10 seasons. that's not scraping by in 6th where we should be as you have tried to dress it up as being nor would i call that bare competence when you consider the financial gap between us and the sides above and once we regroup and get our act together after the last season of regression i see no reason why we can't have a similar run of being consistent challengers to where we want to be - who knows, we might yeild better results this time around.

I know you won't be swayed, bill. Trust me, I've tried as hard as I can, and am now content to simply spar with you every once in a while. Maybe by doing so I'll be helping to soften the blow when it eventually descends on you as it did on me. :p

My arguments are aimed far more at the 'undecideds' who get the vague feeling that there's something wrong with the club but don't know where to point the finger of blame. It's them I'm trying to enlighten, given that more often than not they round on the manager or the DoF or the players, when really there are more fundamental issues with the club that get overlooked when such an approach is adopted: this also plays right into ENIC's hands in this regard. And yes, I do regard finishing between 5th and 6th on a consistent basis as 'bare competence' given that (with very little ENIC money) we currently have the sixth highest revenues in the PL, due in large part to soul-crushingly high prices set by the club that in no way reflect our actual status in the football world, and which exist only to free ENIC from the necessity of spending any real money on their money-spinning little 'asset'. It is really just 'bare competence' given that scenario, more so when Levy so convincingly blew it when it did come to our one shot at the big-time.
 
Tevez in 2012 was by no means a safe bet. Could easily have been another Adebayor. Would love to see him at the Lane though. And Cahill, whilst a great CB, wasn't as polished as now. Better than Nelson, but the difference? Not guaranteed.

What we needed to buy in Jaunary was longer studs for Defoe. Just one longer stud. That was the difference that year :(
 
No, you misunderstand me slightly. In my view, England or no England, securing Tevez and Cahill would have almost guaranteed us CL football at the least, and quite possibly a title challenge all the way through to May given the morale boost we would have received from those signings and the (probable) happiness Harry would have felt at being backed so spectacularly, along with a reciprocal sense of duty to the man who backed him (which is a natural human reaction) which would have stood us in good stead going into the whole Capello debacle and Harry's court case vindication. We didn't, we gave Harry Saha and Nelsen, and who can say how that affected his thought processes regarding the England job being more attractive than staying at a club where the chairman listened patiently to his pleas and then disdainfully threw him rejects and castaways with a dismissive sneer?

Harry was a tool to lose focus the way he did. However, Levy's utter disaster of a January window contributed mightily to what happened after that, and there's no denying it.

And that is my fundamental point. We may hit that once-in-a-decade opportunity again under Levy/Lewis, or another similarly tight-fisted, risk-averse chairman/owner combo who charge the fans an arm and a leg while putting nothing like the same money in themselves. But we will inevitably, inevitably blow it, because this tight-fistedness will leave us demoralized and without reinforcements again, in the same way it did in January 2012. We are where we are now (Sixth place on average) because the owners have bled every last drop of money from the fans to keep us here. Nothing has come from them, save for the 60 million quid that jimmyb eloquently talks about (which is two years of matchday income alone) That is not a mighty fine job, that is taking someone's money and spending it in a barely competent enough manner to keep them where their income suggests they should be. And when the chance comes to rise above our station, we will inevitably blow it because the owners are content to let us drift like this instead of backing our shot for the moon with their own cash, or with a bit of risk.

I have said this before, but that bare competence is all that keeps the majority of fans off ENIC's backs. When that evaporates (as it did this summer, for instance, and as it does regularly when the topic of managers comes up), the fans will ask why their enormous investments into their club (which is now run entirely on their infusions and their presence stirring commercial interest) are not leading to anything like a concurrent commitment from the owners, ownership of the club they love or even competent decisions. When that happens, this facade will come under a lot of strain.

Given the way the club has always been run, and given the stone-cold fact that not only did Harry think he was getting the England job, everyone thought he was getting it, and given that under Harry's reign there was no DOF structure, who should we have signed? Who could we have signed? Any signing would've been for at least three years, and who's to say that the incoming manager would've wanted them (remember, Harry was going to England thus he would've suggested short-term, big money, immediate impact players who were not guaranteed to do the business - see some of his QPR work for proof!)?

Yeah we can complain about tight-fistedness, and I for one would argue that when you have hired a manager then you should back them with who THEY want...but Harry was going. He thought so, took his eye off it, and everyone thought so. It is one of those rare moments when a DOF structure might've been excellent.
 
Tevez in 2012 was by no means a safe bet. Could easily have been another Adebayor. Would love to see him at the Lane though. And Cahill, whilst a great CB, wasn't as polished as now. Better than Nelson, but the difference? Not guaranteed.

What we needed to buy in Jaunary was longer studs for Defoe. Just one longer stud. That was the difference that year :(

Well said.
 
Im against it as sport is about winning and loosing, just throwing money at the problem is both no guarantee of success and would just feel a bit dirty.
Similar to the Olympic Stadium, moving would have made sense but i can't spend 40yrs signing f*** off back to South London, and then doing the same.

Plus Sugar Daddy isnt going to Help.....

With FFP you are locked out from turning up and throwing 200mil at a team, unless the commercial revenue can also be increased, there are ways around these things, but its in the interest of the bigger clubs to enforce these rules more, to stop teams like us breaking in.

Get the stadium built, get the revenue up then see where we are, we are not that far off.
 
Im against it as sport is about winning and loosing, just throwing money at the problem is both no guarantee of success and would just feel a bit dirty.
Similar to the Olympic Stadium, moving would have made sense but i can't spend 40yrs signing f*** off back to South London, and then doing the same.

Plus Sugar Daddy isnt going to Help.....

With FFP you are locked out from turning up and throwing 200mil at a team, unless the commercial revenue can also be increased, there are ways around these things, but its in the interest of the bigger clubs to enforce these rules more, to stop teams like us breaking in.

Get the stadium built, get the revenue up then see where we are, we are not that far off.

Who do you sign these for? Gooner fans? And where do you send these signed documents to?
 
These are the evil ***** that own Emirates Marketing Project
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/16/tanzania-government-accused-serengeti-sale-maasai-lands

"Tanzania has been accused of reneging on its promise to 40,000 Masai pastoralists by going ahead with plans to evict them and turn their ancestral land into a reserve for the royal family of Dubai to hunt big game."


Its all about status.
They own their trophy football club. They want to hunt Elephants and Lions as trophies.

The City they live in is built by slave labour.


If we are ever gonna take money from someone its about the characters of these people. Some of who would be happy enough to sell out to newly cash rich ISIS in the morning.
 
These are the evil ***** that own Emirates Marketing Project
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/16/tanzania-government-accused-serengeti-sale-maasai-lands

"Tanzania has been accused of reneging on its promise to 40,000 Masai pastoralists by going ahead with plans to evict them and turn their ancestral land into a reserve for the royal family of Dubai to hunt big game."


Its all about status.
They own their trophy football club. They want to hunt Elephants and Lions as trophies.

The City they live in is built by slave labour.


If we are ever gonna take money from someone its about the characters of these people. Some of who would be happy enough to sell out to newly cash rich ISIS in the morning.

but that's irrelevant don't you know?? they are building a training ground and some new houses so they mush be good guys.
 
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