Set Pieces

[scaramanga]

Quire the opposite imo. The more time a team has together, the more opportunity there is to work on matters such as set pieces.

And the more time the opposition has to work on defending against them.

Do you genuinely think that nobody in the entire world of football until Gareth Southgate came along had considered practicing set pieces and trying to get good at them?

 

[milo]

 

[milo]

Plus the Luuuurve Train.

Everyone will do it for the first couple of months of the season and then it will get dropped because it'll be effectively countered.

 

[Pirate55]

And the more time the opposition has to work on defending against them.

Do you genuinely think that nobody in the entire world of football until Gareth Southgate came along had considered practicing set pieces and trying to get good at them?

I look at the evidence of our corners and see no apparent plan. Can you honestly say that with our talent, you are happy with our return from corners? Same question to you @milo

 

[Pirate55]

Everyone will do it for the first couple of months of the season and then it will get dropped because it'll be effectively countered.

That's the whole point. It is very difficult to counter. How many goals did our centre backs actually score from corners last season? I can't actually think of a single one!

 

[milo]

That's the whole point. It is very difficult to counter. How many goals did our centre backs actually score from corners last season? I can't actually think of a single one!

Every tactic can be countered. It didn't seem to cause Croatia many problems and their defence is pretty brick. All team will do is mark zonally and prepare for it.

 

[billyiddo]

Someone better tell Poch to tell the players to score from set pieces because i don't think i can take another season of this debate

 

[scaramanga]

That's the whole point. It is very difficult to counter. How many goals did our centre backs actually score from corners last season? I can't actually think of a single one!

What makes you think it's difficult to counter with some practice? There's been no evidence of a team trying it at the highest level or over a period of time.

 

[milo]

I look at the evidence of our corners and see no apparent plan. Can you honestly say that with our talent, you are happy with our return from corners? Same question to you @milo

Our return is average, I am neither happy nor unhappy. What you have been unable to demonstrate is that better returns are down to training rather than fluctuations. If we are to change our training to prioritise an area, I'd like that to be evidenced.

 

[scaramanga]

I look at the evidence of our corners and see no apparent plan. Can you honestly say that with our talent, you are happy with our return from corners? Same question to you @milo

I genuinely couldn't give a flying fudge about our return from corners. For me they're as likely to result in the opposition scoring as us (evidence for this has been posted to death in this thread) and because I like to think about things rather than just reacting like some trained puppy, they don't excite me.

 

[Pirate55]

Every tactic can be countered. It didn't seem to cause Croatia many problems and their defence is pretty brick. All team will do is mark zonally and prepare for it.

Stones got free and had a goal bound header cleared off the line and Harry really should have done better with an open header at the far post which he didn't connect with properly. Those two chances came in a game we didn't create hardly anything else and only had very few set pieces. Those two chances were vital.

 

[milo]

Stones got free and had a goal bound header cleared off the line and Harry really should have done better with an open header at the far post which he didn't connect with properly. Those two chances came in a game we didn't create hardly anything else and only had very few set pieces. Those two chances were vital.

I don't think that we had the line for Kane's header.

One successfully defended header in 120 minutes does seem to support @scaramanga and my argument that it will be nullified in no time.

 

[Bullet]

Spurs should do the 'love train' because it makes life very difficult for defenders, they cannot so easily get touch tight and haul back their man.
Trippier can beat the first man (so the ball is near the centre spot).


Neither of these things require a lot of training time from Poch. Very easy to implement, let's see what happens.
Might be nothing, might be something. Why not try it for a season and then decide.

 

[awesome dawson]

The fact is Spurs have had average (at best) delivery from corners for years. Eriksen rarely beats the front post defender. With Trippier's (and Lamela's) delivery we should improve our return from corners and set pieces.

 

[thfcsteff]

Southgate worked and worked set-pieces because he was looking to maximize his strengths; big, tall, strong players who could dominate the box. He knew he was going into a tournament without a playmaker/passer. He obviously weighed up taking Shelvey or even Gobbrick, and realized (correctly IMO) the neither would last 90 minutes against certain opposition, and neither had the discipline to be equally good defensively/without the ball. So, given that Southgate knew he was going into the tournament without a certain type of player, he made the very smart call to maximize every other asset available and looks to have spent a lot of time on set-pieces.

I think personally it would be foolish to adopt his work for the Prem. I am happy that out of his work we get Trippier to offer some variety off Christian.

 

[scaramanga]

Southgate worked and worked set-pieces because he was looking to maximize his strengths; big, tall, strong players who could dominate the box. He knew he was going into a tournament without a playmaker/passer. He obviously weighed up taking Shelvey or even Gobbrick, and realized (correctly IMO) the neither would last 90 minutes against certain opposition, and neither had the discipline to be equally good defensively/without the ball. So, given that Southgate knew he was going into the tournament without a certain type of player, he made the very smart call to maximize every other asset available and looks to have spent a lot of time on set-pieces.

I think personally it would be foolish to adopt his work for the Prem. I am happy that out of his work we get Trippier to offer some variety off Christian.

If we were stuck with Henderson in the midfield we'd probably have to play Pulisball too.

 

[milo]

The fact is Spurs have had average (at best) delivery from corners for years. Eriksen rarely beats the front post defender. With Trippier's (and Lamela's) delivery we should improve our return from corners and set pieces.

The fact is our return from corners is about average. No team seems to maintain an above average return for more than a season. If coaching was the answer, you would expect more consistency in the returns that clubs get.

 

[milo]

Are you interested in a friendly wager @Pirate55? If standing at a line is a tactical masterstroke at corners, are you willing to bet that there will be more goals from corners in the PL this coming season? I'd suggest using OPTA as the measure but happy with another reputable stats source, if you have a preference.

 

[the dza]

Might be worth considering that there's no VAR (yet) in the Premier League, which gives the defending team more of an advantage at set-pieces. Once VAR started flagging up penalties, I think it caused a bit of confusion and panic for teams who were used to just grappling when defending set plays.

 

[the dza]

And yeah, definitely wouldn't get too hung up on the love train tactic. We could try it and it might work for a bit, but eventually teams will adapt. Good delivery, however, is always going to be effective. Trippier gives us a quality option there.