Ross Barkley

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

hmmmm....looking at those clips, he looks a lot better with the ball than I gave him credit for. I've seen him play before, but never actively watched him (if you understand what I mean) so maybe my impression was wrong, assuming that 1 min montage is an accurate representation of his skills

Big assumption! Slight caveat to it is Im usually a bit skeptical when highlights are only 1 minute!

Generally I just look at Youtube not as indicative of a players general play or form or consistency... But attributes, what do they have to work with?

He looks like a physical beast (big Poch tick), he looks like he can run the length of the pitch all day given how much he appears at either end( big Poch tick), he looks solid defensively (big Poch tick) and he looks capable offensively, while not exactly being "attacking", and I really like that he is direct in getting forward straight away.

If these are what he is like, if my reading of the video is all accurate, I can see him being right up Poch street. Even if only from a "there is a lot to work with here" point of view as opposed to a "he is already perfect for us".

All that being said, I havent even seen the links or know the likelihood of them being genuine, so this is speculative through and through...

 

[AdamB]

Hopefully Gomes isnt the one we're after

Personally I think his range of passing and drive would be a massive addition to our CM. For all Dembele's qualities, he doesnt play many 20-40 yard passes forward which open up teams. I think as those clips show, Gomes has the fight and energy to play CM in the PL though whilst he's a similar height to Dembele, you probably trade off some defensive skills for greater attacking ability

 

[scaramanga]

Ross could break down again or go on to be a world beater. It is luck!
And as I've said we probably were really not an option for him personally.

Or, most likely, he'll continue as he started by being physically talented and mentally subnormal.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Its been years since Ive paid any real attentioin to LaLiga, so I know literally nothing about this lad.

Looking at the video I understand the Barkley comparisons. He doesnt look like a midfielder there, but certainly has a lot of attributes that lend themselves to the role.

Interesting player, if we got him Id be quite excited to see what he might become...

 

[Finney Is Back]

I just see it as a waste of time and money, when Winks is already better than him and Onomah has much more potential. There's also Skipp coming though in that position too. It just feels like bed blocking.

If we want to get him as an emergency back-up plan for Alli going to Barcelona in the summer, and us not being able to get a top notch replacement (a Pav for Berbatov if you like), I'd actually be less hostile.

Winks isn’talready better
Onomah doesn't have much more potential
Skipp doesn’t really play the same position.
Other than that though you’re spot on!

 

[Finney Is Back]

I always thought it was intelligence. He could be brilliant when he was instinctive; he had great technique. But the minute you gave him a decision and a bit of time, it all went wrong.

I think, along with Gazza (in reverse), he's the perfect example of how football intelligence and general intelligence are completely detached.

I couldn’t disagree with you any more strongly. The reason that Jenas was always picked when fit was because of his intelligence on the pitch, he was a coaches dream in many ways as he always did the right thing. As he himself commented after the Burnley game his biggest (IMO only) drawback was that he wasn’t nasty enough. I don’t think he had that same will to win and perhaps unbreakable confidence that most of the standout players do.

 

[DeleHarry]

Kondogbia being mentioned.

He would be a Dembele replacement

However he hasn't got the attacking ability that someone like Barkley has.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Or, most likely, he'll continue as he started by being physically talented and mentally subnormal.

I think the mentally subnormal assertion is a strange one. I have seen Barkley be too greedy on occasions, but also seen him play delightful through balls, the latter suggests to me that the intelligence is there, he just would benefit from some good coaching and teammates that he feels are at least his equals.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He would be a Dembele replacement

However he hasn't got the attacking ability that someone like Barkley has.

Yeah. I would see him taking Dier’s place as cover for Wanyama. If we are serious about Kondogbia then I wonder if Poch is thinking of dropping Dier back as a permanent centre half?

 

[scaramanga]

I think the mentally subnormal assertion is a strange one. I have seen Barkley be too greedy on occasions, but also seen him play delightful through balls, the latter suggests to me that the intelligence is there, he just would benefit from some good coaching and teammates that he feels are at least his equals.

You don't need brains to play a good through ball, just a good touch and timing.

Knowing if that's the right ball to play at that stage in the game/attack is less his forte. He never seems to be a player thinking 3 moves in front of his opponent, he just reacts.

That's not so bad if he's further forward but then he's significantly less good than all our other options. If he wants to play deeper then he'll need to learn that. I've seen footballers learn a lot of things, I've never seen a dumb footballer learn to think.

 

[Finney Is Back]

£15m, I cant decide if thats a lot or not. Being Chelsea I bet he is on stupid wages.

It is quite a lot for a player with on;y 6 months of their deal left. If Barkley waits 6 months then he could add that £15 million to his package.

 

[milo]

I just see it as a waste of time and money, when Winks is already better than him and Onomah has much more potential. There's also Skipp coming though in that position too. It just feels like bed blocking.

If we want to get him as an emergency back-up plan for Alli going to Barcelona in the summer, and us not being able to get a top notch replacement (a Pav for Berbatov if you like), I'd actually be less hostile.

How would you he compares to the best young ball playing midfielders in Europe like Bentaleb?

 

[Gazza]

Good player but is he what we need given we already have Dier and Wanyama? Need a CM who is more like for like with Dembele

Not my choice to decide I'm just passing on what I have read. May or may not have legs

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Yeah. I would see him taking Dier’s place as cover for Wanyama. If we are serious about Kondogbia then I wonder if Poch is thinking of dropping Dier back as a permanent centre half?

Pich has stated he sees him as a world class centre half, hasnt he?

Perhaps longer term the idea is for him to settle in there.

Though its reported Dier fancies midfield more...

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

It is quite a lot for a player with on;y 6 months of their deal left. If Barkley waits 6 months then he could add that £15 million to his package.

In the current market, as disgusting as it is to say, its really not.

£15m seems to be pocket change these days. Not long ago it was a guarantee of a decent player even if they had 3 years on their deal, now? Its probably equivalent to the £5m nominal amounts that used to change hands...

 

[Finney Is Back]

You don't need brains to play a good through ball, just a good touch and timing.

Knowing if that's the right ball to play at that stage in the game/attack is less his forte. He never seems to be a player thinking 3 moves in front of his opponent, he just reacts.

That's not so bad if he's further forward but then he's significantly less good than all our other options. If he wants to play deeper then he'll need to learn that. I've seen footballers learn a lot of things, I've never seen a dumb footballer learn to think.

But you don’t know that he is dumb, that is the problem. Currently he is a talented but inconsistent footballer. I think you are labeling him with a tag without there really being much evidence to support that tag. I don’t think Barkley is the savior of English football, nor do I think he would get in our current first team if all are fit (it is the same story at Chelsea too). However Barkley does have good attributes and furthermore they are the ones that cannot really be coached (power, skill, ability, confidence). The attributes that some perceive him lacking such as positional sense, when to release the ball, when to tackle/not, which runs to track, etc) are the attributes that are easily developed. When I was involved in youth coaching the talented youngsters without those other qualities were the ones you wanted as it was so easy to improve their game substantially.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Loan him out for a year or so. Sell him to Saudi Sportswashing Machine/West Ham for £25m.

Their whole business model now is essentially 'buy-to-let'

Neither could pay £25 million plus £150k a week. The reason the wages are so big is because the transfer fee is comparitevely low.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

But you don’t know that he is dumb, that is the problem. Currently he is a talented but inconsistent footballer. I think you are labeling him with a tag without there really being much evidence to support that tag. I don’t think Barkley is the savior of English football, nor do I think he would get in our current first team if all are fit (it is the same story at Chelsea too). However Barkley does have good attributes and furthermore they are the ones that cannot really be coached (power, skill, ability, confidence). The attributes that some perceive him lacking such as positional sense, when to release the ball, when to tackle/not, which runs to track, etc) are the attributes that are easily developed. When I was involved in youth coaching the talented youngsters without those other qualities were the ones you wanted as it was so easy to improve their game substantially.

Ive said it a few times, he spent most of his time playing under Martinez. The very definition of disorganised. How easy is it to look "smart" on the field when everyone is winging it?

 

[Finney Is Back]

This is just ITK, but...

Hertyid:

Just got a text about this. His wage demands would have put him ahead of Kane. Levy was prepared to pay it as wages structure will be shifting higher from the summer, but Poch didn't want to set a precedent or upset the squad dynamic. Also big concerns over injury and how much he would play this season.

First time ever Levy has opened his wallet and been shunned?

‘Just Got a text about this’.... yes of course you did Hertyid

 

[Gutter Boy]

Personally I think his range of passing and drive would be a massive addition to our CM. For all Dembele's qualities, he doesnt play many 20-40 yard passes forward which open up teams. I think as those clips show, Gomes has the fight and energy to play CM in the PL though whilst he's a similar height to Dembele, you probably trade off some defensive skills for greater attacking ability

I'd see him more as an upgrade of Sissoko - i.e. I think he'd revert back to AM in the EPL/our system, and emergency/5th choice CM.