Ross Barkley

[AdamB]

I'd rather back Poch to finish the job with Onomah. In 12 months time I think Onomah will have eclipsed Barkley.

Barkley has a fundamental lack of a footballing brain, which will keep him as a bottom half EPL/upper championship player, like David Dunn before him.

I've yet to see anything in Onomah which suggests he'll make it as a PL player. He's made a reasonable number of appearances now, albeit a lot as short cameos towards the end of games, and he's yet to make an impact in any.

I'd have liked to think he would at least have shown what main skill/attribute he has which could give him the chance of making it - yet he's not shown, for example, that he's able to beat a man, or play a defence splitting pass, or have amazing skill, or pace, or....and to make it worse, he just saunters around.

To say that he will be better than Barkley in 12 months' time is just ignoring all evidence so far

 

[parklane1]

But what does he excel at? I'm more than willing to give him more time, just not too impressed from what I have seen so far. Winks on the other other hand definitely has something about him and doesn't appear to be fazed by the occasion.

That is pretty much where i stand on the two players as well. Winks has been on the pitch in fewer games then Onomah has but i have seen far more from Winks to suggest he will be the one who will become part of the first team here.

 

[SpurMeUp]

That is pretty much where i stand on the two players as well. Winks has been on the pitch in fewer games then Onomah has but i have seen far more from Winks to suggest he will be the one who will become part of the first team here.

Different players and people develop at different rates. Winks has done better in the limelight no doubt. Onomah seems like a slow starter, he could click and find his mojo. A loan to a good team who need him, playing in competitive games regularly, might get him up to speed.

I liked Barkley, but he hasn't kicked on from where he was a few years ago. Could Poch help him deliver his potential? For the right price I'd take Barkley. He has technique and poise but doesn't seem to show consistency.

Edit: one concern is if Koeman doesn't rate him. Koeman one the best managers in the PL imo and not dissimilar to Poch. If Koeman is not playing him because of his contract, fair enough, but maybe Koeman has picked up on an entitlement (after making it so young) and wants more from him. Sign of a good manager possibly.

 

[Finney Is Back]

That is pretty much where i stand on the two players as well. Winks has been on the pitch in fewer games then Onomah has but i have seen far more from Winks to suggest he will be the one who will become part of the first team here.

While I agree with you in part here, I would say that of all our young players outside of Edwards, Onomah has the most natural talent by far. He has all of the skill, vision and physical attributes to become an international standard player, but he lacks that real confidence, drive and will to win that is often the biggest differentiater at the top level.

 

[parklane1]

Different players and people develop at different rates. Winks has done better in the limelight no doubt. Onomah seems like a slow starter, he could click and find his mojo. A loan to a good team who need him, playing in competitive games regularly, might get him up to speed.

.

I accept that they are different players and that players develop different speeds and Onomah may push on and develop into a good player. But like fans of ALL clubs we tend to go over board about " one of our own" players and see things through rose tinted glasses. From what i have seen so far Winks has showed the mentality to suggest that he will become a very good player, alas i can not say the same ( so far) about Onomah, now that is not to say he will not do so but so far ( imo) he has not shown anything.

While I agree with you in part here, I would say that of all our young players outside of Edwards, Onomah has the most natural talent by far. He has all of the skill, vision and physical attributes to become an international standard player, but he lacks that real confidence, drive and will to win that is often the biggest differentiater at the top level.

Not having seen Onomah at youth level i can not dispute what you are saying about his natural talent, but again all i can say is that i have seen all his games so far in the first team and he has not shown any of that. Now like i say he may push on and do that but ( imo) at the moment when everyone is fit i can not see him getting many chances to show us. Maybe like others have suggested a loan to a suitable ( the opposite to what we got Pritchard) may be the way to go.

 

[Libero]

While I agree with you in part here, I would say that of all our young players outside of Edwards, Onomah has the most natural talent by far. He has all of the skill, vision and physical attributes to become an international standard player, but he lacks that real confidence, drive and will to win that is often the biggest differentiater at the top level.

He looks to me like he is coasting, like he has arrived and is a player at a big club. I was watching him during the Leicester game warming up at half time and it was lacksidaiscal at best and that tends to be how he plays during games. I am struggling to remember a forward moving pass that he has made, it is all sideways and back. That is helpful when you want to kill the game and a lot is to be said for ball retention but he looks too comfortable for me and he probably needs to be stretched by a loan.

We need to see what he is made of when he is forced to really earn his wages and he is playing with people who are reliant on the win bonuses and the pressure that brings. He doesn't seem to excel at any level in any attribute at the moment and I think playing for his money will force him to impose himself a bit more (hopefully).

I personally have seen nothing to indicate to me that he is going to be a player of any substance but I also accept we all were pretty much wrong about Kane and that could be the case with Onomah but I would be even more shocked than I was with Kane tbh. More than willing to give him some time but it can't be as part of our 25 for the moment imo as he doesn't merit taking up a space that someone else deserves from the academy or one that is signed and is ready to go immediately.

 

[AdamB]

He looks to me like he is coasting, like he has arrived and is a player at a big club. I was watching him during the Leicester game warming up at half time and it was lacksidaiscal at best and that tends to be how he plays during games. I am struggling to remember a forward moving pass that he has made, it is all sideways and back. That is helpful when you want to kill the game and a lot is to be said for ball retention but he looks too comfortable for me and he probably needs to be stretched by a loan.

We need to see what he is made of when he is forced to really earn his wages and he is playing with people who are reliant on the win bonuses and the pressure that brings. He doesn't seem to excel at any level in any attribute at the moment and I think playing for his money will force him to impose himself a bit more (hopefully).

I personally have seen nothing to indicate to me that he is going to be a player of any substance but I also accept we all were pretty much wrong about Kane and that could be the case with Onomah but I would be even more shocked than I was with Kane tbh. More than willing to give him some time but it can't be as part of our 25 for the moment imo as he doesn't merit taking up a space that someone else deserves from the academy or one that is signed and is ready to go immediately.

Exactly my views as well (though also very pleased that I always said Kane would make it and in the long term be a Teddy Sheringham type CF)

 

[SpurMeUp]

He looks to me like he is coasting, like he has arrived and is a player at a big club. I was watching him during the Leicester game warming up at half time and it was lacksidaiscal at best and that tends to be how he plays during games. I am struggling to remember a forward moving pass that he has made, it is all sideways and back. That is helpful when you want to kill the game and a lot is to be said for ball retention but he looks too comfortable for me and he probably needs to be stretched by a loan.

We need to see what he is made of when he is forced to really earn his wages and he is playing with people who are reliant on the win bonuses and the pressure that brings. He doesn't seem to excel at any level in any attribute at the moment and I think playing for his money will force him to impose himself a bit more (hopefully).

I personally have seen nothing to indicate to me that he is going to be a player of any substance but I also accept we all were pretty much wrong about Kane and that could be the case with Onomah but I would be even more shocked than I was with Kane tbh. More than willing to give him some time but it can't be as part of our 25 for the moment imo as he doesn't merit taking up a space that someone else deserves from the academy or one that is signed and is ready to go immediately.

Could you do the job you do now when you were 19? He needss time. The odds of him making it are stacked against him as they are with every young player, but he has undoubted ability. Poch wouldn't have put faith in him otherwise. I don't think he's shown much of this ability either. A long run of competitive game is what Onomah needs. So agree a loan would be the best move.

 

[Libero]

Could you do the job you do now when you were 19? He needss time. The odds of him making it are stacked against him as they are with every young player, but he has undoubted ability. Poch wouldn't have put faith in him otherwise. I don't think he's shown much of this ability either. A long run of competitive game is what Onomah needs. So agree a loan would be the best move.

Its unlikely that I could the job I do now at 19 that is true but at that age I was playing football at a reasonable level and imposing myself against grown men that were 10-15 years older so its not impossible he could the same, he simply has to actually start showing some discernible features to his game which he hasn't done so far. Totally not denying that he needs some time and a loan at all and I think I have advocated that in my original post.

 

[milo]

I accept that they are different players and that players develop different speeds and Onomah may push on and develop into a good player. But like fans of ALL clubs we tend to go over board about " one of our own" players and see things through rose tinted glasses. From what i have seen so far Winks has showed the mentality to suggest that he will become a very good player, alas i can not say the same ( so far) about Onomah, now that is not to say he will not do so but so far ( imo) he has not shown anything.





Not having seen Onomah at youth level i can not dispute what you are saying about his natural talent, but again all i can say is that i have seen all his games so far in the first team and he has not shown any of that. Now like i say he may push on and do that but ( imo) at the moment when everyone is fit i can not see him getting many chances to show us. Maybe like others have suggested a loan to a suitable ( the opposite to what we got Pritchard) may be the way to go.

Winks is a year old which can make a difference at this age.

Let's hope that Onomah has pushed on and is a similar position this time next season.

 

[parklane1]

Winks is a year old which can make a difference at this age.

Let's hope that Onomah has pushed on and is a similar position this time next season.

Yes it can.


We can hope so.

 

[Rorschach]

Back to Ross Barkley then. I can't make my mind up on him. Some games he looks great and others he just looks like a pretender. He certainly has a bit of something about him to be sure. He plays with his head up which is numero uno on my list. He is still a little hit and miss after that though, literally.
Whether he'll realise his potential will of course depend on him, but also the coaching he gets going forward. Is Koeman the right man to bring him forward? Maybe he is. Anyone with with Ajax academy blood in their veins has been schooled the right way. For Barkley his next choice career wise may be the making or breaking of him. I hope he has good people around him that will guide him based on his best interests.

 

[milo]

Back to Ross Barkley then. I can't make my mind up on him. Some games he looks great and others he just looks like a pretender. He certainly has a bit of something about him to be sure. He plays with his head up which is numero uno on my list. He is still a little hit and miss after that though, literally.
Whether he'll realise his potential will of course depend on him, but also the coaching he gets going forward. Is Koeman the right man to bring him forward? Maybe he is. Anyone with with Ajax academy blood in their veins has been schooled the right way. For Barkley his next choice career wise may be the making or breaking of him. I hope he has good people around him that will guide him based on his best interests.

I'm undecided on him also. He obviously has talent but hasn't pushed on as quickly as you'd hope.

On Koeman vs Poch. I know that Koeman hasn't been in the PL that long but who has he brought through so far?

 

[Rorschach]

I'm undecided on him also. He obviously has talent but hasn't pushed on as quickly as you'd hope.

On Koeman vs Poch. I know that Koeman hasn't been in the PL that long but who has he brought through so far?

I can't answer that really but the timeframe given to coaches in the PL doesn't lend itself to bringing young players through. Poch may be in a somewhat unique position in that he has enough credit in the bank to afford himself the luxury of blooding a Winks or Edwards. Others coaches will not be afforded that luxury, or they haven't yet earned the luxury. Barkley however is not a complete newbie, so it is more a question of whether Koeman can take a talented but inconsistent player and turn him into a talented consistent player.
I guess the real question is would Barkley flourish here at Spurs? Who can say but if I was Barkley I would fancy my chances here rather than at Everton based on recent history.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Barkley score the equaliser last night, and was praised by Koeman for providing end product. He also said evertons attacks came though Barkley. So Koeman is getting to work on Barkley, not accepting him delivering less, asking him for more, and if Barkley continues to deliver he won't be sold. Everton need Barkley more than us and will offer him a big contract if he keeps performing.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Barkley score the equaliser last night, and was praised by Koeman for providing end product. He also said evertons attacks came though Barkley. So Koeman is getting to work on Barkley, not accepting him delivering less, asking him for more, and if Barkley continues to deliver he won't be sold. Everton need Barkley more than us and will offer him a big contract if he keeps performing.

Bigger than anything we would offer?

Perhaps, but it just might turn on what's in Barkley's head. Is he hungry for a new challenge? Does he aspire to be at a club that's consistently challenging for the top four and more? One that's soon to move into an enviable new stadium? Maybe the fact that Poch is showing such belief in his potential will make the difference.

Maybe also the extra attractions of the capital will come into the reckoning.

The prospect of him coming to us is in intriguing. He has the latent talent and physique to provide exactly the right type of creativity for us up front, and who here doubts that Poch is the man to unlock that well of talent in the long term?

 

[Lemonade Money]

Winks is a year old which can make a difference at this age.

Let's hope that Onomah has pushed on and is a similar position this time next season.

He's still in nappies!

 

[afsoc4life]

I would rather give Onomah a chance than him!

 

[Jordinho]

Some Everton fan comments from their last game:

The lads head has completely gone. I blame Woy Hodgson for his psychological hatchet job personally, but Ross needs a sports psychologist now.

That's 2 or 3 lazy fouls now from Ross.

Only positives are Barkley and Davis.

What match were you watching where Ross Barkley's performance was positive?

He scored a goal. And I think thats just about all he did.

I wish we had a proper prospect like Deli Ali.

That lazy fraud cant even be arsed to do anything more than a light jog off the ball.

Evertonian or not, snatch spurs fudging hand off for him this January, he has no future here. Leon Osman would probably benefit the team more than he does even to this day.

Ross played well, only player who looked like doing anything.

If Alli had played like that Sky would be tinkling themselves over him.

What game were you watching? More to the point what spurs paud pundit were you listening to?

The lad was solid today.

What do you mean with the Spurs remark? Deli Ali has heaps and heaps more ability than Barkley.

I was watching him today and saw him make two or three good passes, ones that you would expect an attacking midfielder to make. Then watched him potter around the midfield, refuse to chase anything down and not much more. Despite the goal, which was one you'd expect him to score, he offered nothing to change the game. He didnt take it by the scruff of the neck and appear to want to win it.

He was average today. It doesn't deserve credit, if anything average is the bare minimum you'd expect from any player.

You dont see the sky/spurs connection no? Ah well.

The lad played well considering what he had to pass to. Must be that isolation thing again eh.

As for Ross, it's almost as if 80% of our team dont actually want to work for a win, they just want the win to happen.

Ali was brick for the first 3/4 months of the season. I work with a dozen Spurs fans and what we have been saying about Ross they have been saying about him.

Ross was the best player on the pitch, good passes, used the ball well, tracked back and scored.

Glad Ross got his goal but he needs to stop bricking out of tackles.

 

[Baleforce]

even they can see sky hate us

Barkley is a decent player, but he's no better than what we have already imo, the English tax would make him a waste of money for us