Politics, politics, politics

[Gutter Boy]

Anyone noticed how the fascists have been coming out of the wood work and from under their rocks of late? I wonder what has boosted the self belief of these maggots?

In the UK or internationally?

In the UK, with the like of National Front, Combat 18, BNP and EDL having gone, they are probably as quiet/less organised as I can remember. Perhaps they just put ties on and joined UKIP, I don't know?

Internationally Italy, France, America and Eastern Europe have always had a sizeable element. It's probably bigger in Germany, Austria and Holland than I remember though.

Or do you just mean racist tossers on twitter? They've probably always been like that on their run-down estates, but the internet has given them their own printing press.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

In the UK or internationally?

In the UK, with the like of National Front, Combat 18, BNP and EDL having gone, they are probably as quiet/less organised as I can remember. Perhaps they just put ties on and joined UKIP, I don't know?

Internationally Italy, France, America and Eastern Europe have always had a sizeable element. It's probably bigger in Germany, Austria and Holland than I remember though.

Or do you just mean racist tossers on twitter? They've probably always been like that on their run-down estates, but the internet has given them their own printing press.

Well the Tory fascist mentioned above is a pretty good start. His views were what prompted my comment.

 

[milo]

Some of you won't like the style this is written in or what he is saying but this is a decent article on what lays ahead after triggering A50

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/201...need-to-know-about-article-50-in-five-minutes

 

[parklane1]

Some of you won't like the style this is written in or what he is saying but this is a decent article on what lays ahead after triggering A50

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/201...need-to-know-about-article-50-in-five-minutes

They spelt his name wrong i guess he must have a book to sell.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Some of you won't like the style this is written in or what he is saying but this is a decent article on what lays ahead after triggering A50

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/201...need-to-know-about-article-50-in-five-minutes

Yeah - I've always felt a good sign of being a nutter is having conversations with yourself out loud

 

[milo]

They spelt his name wrong i guess he must have a book to sell.

Along with Tim Shipman's, it is probably the best book on Brexit written so far and certainly the best about what happens next. Dunt has a good handle on the political and legal difficulties and was alive to the issues of settling our position at the WTO long before any other journalist that I have read.

 

[parklane1]

Just when you think you have heard the last of this warmonger he rears his ugly head again. I wonder if he will say that his GHod told him he was right just like he did when he took us into the illegal war.



http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38996179

 

[StephenH]

Blair speaks so much common sense.
Shame he is not leader of Labour now.

Brexit will cost the U.K. Far too much.

Not bothered about the leaving the EU, I'm no fan. But the cost for us is far too high.

 

[milo]

Just when you think you have heard the last of this warmonger he rears his ugly head again. I wonder if he will say that his GHod told him he was right just like he did when he took us into the illegal war.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38996179

Have you seen the speech? I'd be interested in which parts you disagree with

 

[the dza]

Have you seen the speech? I'd be interested in which parts you disagree with

It was a good speech, I agree with a lot of it (I did vote to remain, afterall). However, I don't agree with the way he and others talk about immigration, specifically that non-EU migrants make up more of the overall number than EU migrants, therefore controlling EU migration is an irrelevance. Non-EU migrants have to meet criteria with regards earnings, language tests etc. EU migrants have no such criteria. Therefore migrants from Eastern Europe can come and compete in the unskilled labour market much more so than Non-EU migrants. And it is the unskilled labour market of this country that don't normally vote in general elections that went out and voted in droves for Brexit. So to continue to gloss over this fact is an error by Blair and infact, is the reason why there was a big appetite amongst them to leave the EU in the first place., and to say "phuck you" to the likes of Blair, who ignore their experiences of life with wilfully misinterpreted statistics.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I'm not sure there are any bigger recruiters for Brexit than Blair and Mandleson. They are absolutely toxic nowadays. You only need Gordon Brown to pipe in for the full house

 

[scaramanga]

I'm not sure there are any bigger recruiters for Brexit than Blair and Mandleson. They are absolutely toxic nowadays. You only need Gordon Brown to pipe in for the full house

Blair might be the Labour party's last hope of being a relevant entity.

If he can gather together those who have a vague understanding of economics and leave the nut jobs to splinter off, they could probably be fighting the election after next.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Blair might be the Labour party's last hope of being a relevant entity.

If he can gather together those who have a vague understanding of economics and leave the nut jobs to splinter off, they could probably be fighting the election after next.

His brand is toxic though. He's the equivalent of Thatcher through the naughties.

There is absolutely a space for a Jarvis/Benn/Umunna/Watson social democrat wing revival or breakaway. But they need a charismatic young leader without the baggage. A Cameron c.2005 or a Blair c.1994.

If it's without a breakaway, first they are going to need a John Smith or Michael Howard to steady the ship, repair the damage and lay the ground for that emergence.

But for now it's just hoping they don't get completely obliterated in 2020, so there's some base left to build towards 2025. Their one piece of good fortune is there's no other rival as second party with the SNP consigned to Scotland, the Lib Dems a busted flush, and UKIP having an fatal existential crisis. It will just be how big a Tory landslide they will have to deal with.

 

[the dza]

His brand is toxic though. He's the equivalent of Thatcher through the naughties.

There is absolutely a space for a Jarvis/Benn/Umunna/Watson social democrat wing revival or breakaway. But they need a charismatic young leader without the baggage. A Cameron c.2005 or a Blair c.1994.

I doubt that will happen. It's been tried before and ended in failure, the likes of Umunna wouldn't take the risk imo. I think Clive Lewis is more likely to lead the Labour Party than Umunna.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I doubt that will happen. It's been tried before and ended in failure, the likes of Umunna wouldn't take the risk imo. I think Clive Lewis is more likely to lead the Labour Party than Umunna.

Absolutely. Our electoral systems really inhibits upstarts. As well as David Steele's SDP, look at UKIP's share of the vote compared to their 1 MP.

This quite interesting graphic shows how our party status quo has changed just the one in 200 years

Isn't Lewis too close to Corbyn? His presentation is much better, but he's essentially socialist (and thereby unelectable in particularly England)?

 

[scaramanga]

I doubt that will happen. It's been tried before and ended in failure, the likes of Umunna wouldn't take the risk imo. I think Clive Lewis is more likely to lead the Labour Party than Umunna.

Absolutely. Our electoral systems really inhibits upstarts. As well as David Steele's SDP, look at UKIP's share of the vote compared to their 1 MP.

This quite interesting graphic shows how our party status quo has changed just the one in 200 years

Isn't Lewis too close to Corbyn? His presentation is much better, but he's essentially socialist (and thereby unelectable in particularly England)?

I think if they're clever and careful enough about it, there's enough sensible Labour MPs to make the mentals split off. Socialists are still a minority - even in the Labour Party.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Blair might be the Labour party's last hope of being a relevant entity.

If he can gather together those who have a vague understanding of economics and leave the nut jobs to splinter off, they could probably be fighting the election after next.

Yeah you'd love that.... an electoral face between the Tories and Tory Lite.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

His brand is toxic though. He's the equivalent of Thatcher through the naughties.

There is absolutely a space for a Jarvis/Benn/Umunna/Watson social democrat wing revival or breakaway. But they need a charismatic young leader without the baggage. A Cameron c.2005 or a Blair c.1994.

If it's without a breakaway, first they are going to need a John Smith or Michael Howard to steady the ship, repair the damage and lay the ground for that emergence.

But for now it's just hoping they don't get completely obliterated in 2020, so there's some base left to build towards 2025. Their one piece of good fortune is there's no other rival as second party with the SNP consigned to Scotland, the Lib Dems a busted flush, and UKIP having an fatal existential crisis. It will just be how big a Tory landslide they will have to deal with.

Last time I checked Watson was a socialist too.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I'm not sure there are any bigger recruiters for Brexit than Blair and Mandleson. They are absolutely toxic nowadays. You only need Gordon Brown to pipe in for the full house

What was your problem with them? Weren't they sufficiently right wing for you? Always makes me laugh seeing right wing Labour politicians, Blair and Mandleson at least, being critiqued from a right wing perspective.

 

[scaramanga]

Yeah you'd love that.... an electoral face between the Tories and Tory Lite.

The electorate would. That's where this country's voting preferences have been since the late 70s.

I know age/time dulls the mind etc. so just to help visualise that time span - the gap between Thatcher coming into power and now is longer than the gap between WWII and Thatcher coming into power. People born in that year are the parents of kids who are going to be able to vote soon.