milo
Jack L. Jones
It won't be presented like that in the EU hostile press. They want to get out because it would be in their owners' self interest.
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
It won't be presented like that in the EU hostile press. They want to get out because it would be in their owners' self interest.
Why?
milo
Jack L. Jones
Money. A mixture of EU anti-competition rules could restrict their empire building and co-operation between different tax authorities might mean that they have to pay their share.
Thanks for the response, Milo. From what you have said, and my own gut feelings about it, I can't see a reason to vote to leave.
If I were to ask you to play devil's advocate, if you were on the 'leave' side, what benefits might you put forward?
milo
Jack L. Jones
I genuinely do not think that there are many benefits. The only reason that I think stacks up is if you feel strongly about sovereignty. That is not to say that the EU is perfect, it is a bureaucratic mess desperately in need of reform but I think that we are better off being inside arguing for reform than being outside having no say in the matter but still having to follow their rules.
Bullet
Luka Modric
I can imagine people putting forward arguments like "We spend £100m every week on being in the EU... just so fat cats can swan around on tame swans eating swan soup out of swan beaks... then they have the cheek to tell us we can't sell curved bananas, what a waste of money" and forget that we get £200m per week benefit from being in Europe, so the investment is well spent.
Obviously I have just made those sums of money up. But the bit about swans is true.
Obviously I have just made those sums of money up. But the bit about swans is true.
There's a very valid argument about democracy and representation.
If the government (or its minions) makes a decision I don't like I can (and have) see my MP and have that decision changed. If the EU makes a decision we don't like there is not a thing that can be done about it. Those who make the decisions are unaccountable and they change the rules to suit them whenever they fancy it (see the whole new treaty/not a new treaty debacle).
I also think the EU have overplayed their trade strength. Germany runs the EU and the UK is a massive customer for Germany. They don't want us trading at arm's length any more than we want to with the EU.
That said, we're better off able to influence decisions from the inside as long as we have a veto on anything we don't like and our own government/courts have final say on everything.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I get that and think that we should be arguing for more transparency and accountability within the EU.
If the referendum result is to remain, what stops the EU from continuing on as 'they' (whoever 'they' are) wish re. transparency and accountability? Once we decide to stay, they can say "well, this is how it is, you're not leaving, so that's the end of that."
Perhaps that will become the main argument for leaving -- that if we don't, then we end up on the irreversible path to 'ever closer union' and the referendum might be the only chance to stop that (if indeed we want to stop it.)
Would being part of a federal Europe be a bad thing? The case of Greece makes it seem that more flexibility might be better for individual countries than being too tied together. But I'm not really sure either way.
milo
Jack L. Jones
We are not going to be part of a federal Europe any time soon, talk of that is just scaremongering.
I think that it is wrong to think about it as us against the rest of Europe. Multi-national negotiations are always going to be complicated and there will be a wide range of views and interests that need to be accommodated. Our challenge is to sell what we want to other European countries and build allegiances.
Leaving the EU would not put a stop to having to negotiate with our European neighbours either. In fact there would be more because we would have to negotiate new agreements once we left as our current ones would end.
milo
Jack L. Jones
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
Interesting table.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35226478
Interesting read this I thought, we seem to do a fair bit
Interesting read this I thought, we seem to do a fair bit
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parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Meanwhile people are being flooded out of their homes here because not enough money is spent on flood barriers, hospital are already having to go on black alert ( the worst stage of them all) even though its been a mild winter.
I could go on about other things but there is no point.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
yep I am on your side of the fence when it comes to this mon frere
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Its such a shame that those arseholes in parliament do not think the same.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
my thoughts are with those poor ladies raped in Cologne, shocking and sad, I felt this the appropriate thread, for so many to be raped and abused in one night is absolutely shocking and disgusting.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
This is going to sound slightly off topic but stick with it. I watched a show on religions view to LGBT and there was a young Muslim talking about coming out and the reaction from his mosque/community, the reaction he got was as you imagine but for me what was worse to come out of it was his insight that a large London based Muslim community were preaching against the UK the West and how we were the enemy, whilst themselves being based in London. I know news reports have had it mentioned but I always take the Sun and Mail etc with a pinch of salt, but for this guy to come out and confirm it in a show not even tackling that subject was shocking. Where else in the world would that be tolerated?? It really does make me wonder. I am a highly tolerant person, realistic but tolerant and can accept there being mosques and places where people can express their religion, but how can this then be interpreted that we are the enemy and then become a breeding ground for the enemy from within??