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Politics, politics, politics part deux

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by SpurMeUp, 19 Feb 2019.

  1. Gilzeantoscore

    Gilzeantoscore Young-Pyo Lee

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    When I'm around, there is no such thing as a free hit. You know that. :)
     
  2. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Tom Huddlestone

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    Im well aware, but cant help feeling you are taking swings that are completely off target and unnecessary.

    Despite what you might think I have no love for the Tories. Take shots at them all day and its water off a ducks back, I couldnt give a brick.
     
  3. Rorschach

    Rorschach Erik Thorstvedt

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    Timothy Synder on Europe.
     
  4. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    This is quite an amazing poll:

     
  5. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Vedran Corluka

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    Greens going up just shows how dumb people are.
     
    JerusalemMan likes this.
  6. Gilzeantoscore

    Gilzeantoscore Young-Pyo Lee

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    Funny that , because you only ever seem to make posts that are critical of Labour.
     
  7. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Tom Huddlestone

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    You have tunnel vision around anything like that, so your comment comes as no surprise.
     
  8. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Vedran Corluka

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    People are dumb? Don't tell me that:D
     
  9. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    European Election Voting Intention:
    BXP: 34% (+4)
    LAB: 16% (-5)
    LDM: 15% (+5)
    GRN: 11% (+2)
    CON: 10% (-3)
    CHUK: 5% (-4)

    Interesting stats given that all we have heard from a number of MPs and protesters is that "no one wants Brexit now". How long does politics and people go on not listening to the public or gauging the mood?
     
  10. JerusalemMan

    JerusalemMan Jonathan Woodgate

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    This is pretty brutal. Clicking the link takes you to the full letter.
    Hard to ignore. But it certainly shall be.

     
  11. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Tom Huddlestone

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    Wow, thats damning.

    Would be interested to hear a Labour supporters (or cultist - @Gilzeantoscore ;) ) response to this.
     
  12. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    "Principled stands" like these tend to conincide with Blairite politics -- see Chuka's CUK party as the prime example. Was happy to remain a member despite Iraq. Dr. David Kelly's suicide was fine. That Corbyn though, grr.

    Meanwhile:

     
  13. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    The no-deal Brexit Party on 34%. Arch remain parties (Greens, CHUK and Lib Dem) on 31% combined. Given the margin of error in polling, that's pretty much even between both ends of the spectrum.

    In the middle, you've got the 2 main Westminster parties on 26% combined. The Tories are more leave orientated, so add them to the Brexit Party Vote, giving 44%. Labour are a more remain orientated party, so add their vote to the hardcore remain parties and you get a combined total of 47%. Factor in margin of error, add a couple of percent for UKIP to the leave parties, and opinion is still basically split down the middle.

    A 2nd referendum with opinion still so evenly divided would be pointless imo. If there is to be any further questions put to the public, it would probably have to simply ask what flavour of leave we'd like (no-deal or Norway). And then we'd have to live with the result. Remain is dead imo.
     
    parklane1, SpurMeUp and Gutter Boy like this.
  14. Modric THFC

    Modric THFC Steffen Iversen

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    Say what you want about Farage but their branding is spot on.
    Compare "Vote for the Brexit party" to the confusing mess over at the Independent Group/Change UK "For Remain Vote Change".
    They had the chance to name themselves the Remain Party and get 48% of the vote.
     
  15. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    I thought this was intresting, some of you might too. Lefty Media interview with a Brexit Party candidate. Some good debate between them imo:

     
  16. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Christian Ziege

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    Asking that question: what type of leave would you like, would be affective in itself, becaue it would start to show up how little Brexit delivers. Whether the masses would be able to understand that or whether they'd just follow the simplistic 'in the name of democracy' nonsene and get all steamed up with career politician Farage we don't know. I think he is ripe for exposure. No one in the political classes is prepared to go down to his level and rip him apart. Yet so much of what he says does not make sense, when you consider it. So much is hypocracy, and within 5 minutes you can see he's in it for a jolly. Making £400k a year, being the big knob. He maintains he doesn't want to be there - but he is giggling away - making a mint out the mugs that fall for his bunkum.

    Think I'm just biased? Here's one example of Farage's false dawns. The form of Brexit he peddles would lead to a less white UK with more muslims. Now Farage has used immigration and talked about Islamic extremism when it has suited him. But how many muslims come from Europe to the UK? Verses those that come from outside the EU to the UK? Given that the UK has an aging population and needs immigrants to work in the NHS, to pick fruit etc, and that the majority of our immigrants come from outside the EU now, it is clear that Farage is just riding the wave of Brexit for his own ends. He does not care about the issues that he talks about, such as immigration. He uses it to gain the limelight and make money. Immigration is of course a contentious issue. It is hard to talk about race and religion, to get onto Farage's level. But he uses it when he needs to. He used it to get the Brexit vote. Without it, there would be no Brexit. Why? Becuase Brexit would have been about the economy, becaue the EU's heart is trading union and the primary effect on the UK is economic. Farage, UKIP, Banks (funded by Russia) could not have that. The population considering the reality of Brexit - the effect on jobs, British people having less money due to a weaker economy - would have meant they would lose the vote. So they had to made it about immigration, and that is what tipped the ballance.

    Yet now, when the stark reality is staring us in the face, that Brexit offers nothing apart from economic and political harm, and less white immigration from europe, Farage has shifted the narrative to the whiney but effective 'they don't listen to us'. He is the King of Snearers, he's made a career out of it. Yet he offers nothing. No vision of his own. He stands for what we don't like. Nothing more.

    Who do you vote for to put MEPs in place who actually care about doing work to help people? Rather than those who take 100k a year salary, pay their German wives 30k a year as their 'secretry', claim travel costs to go and drink wine in France while snearing at people who are trying to work for a continent.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2019
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  17. JerusalemMan

    JerusalemMan Jonathan Woodgate

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    https://uk.kantar.com/public-opinio...meter-labour-9-points-ahead-of-conservatives/

    *Please note: the figures for “The Brexit Party” and “Change UK” are based on respondents that spontaneously named these parties as an “other” answer.

    So that 10% is purely from people suggesting it as part of their response. The Brexit party weren't actually given as a separate option. That's quite encouraging for them
     
  18. the dza

    the dza Christian Ziege

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    I agree, the Brexit Party have really gained traction and are doing well. It will be interesting to see how they get on after the Euro Elections or if they bother continuing should the Tory Party change to a "no-deal" leader. There was even a rumour that in a GE, Farage would run in Boris Johnson's seat to split the Tory vote and get rid of Johnson as an MP.
     
  19. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Milija Aleksic

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    The UK political system played into his hands though, offered up the referendum (he didn't) and then did not listen to people when they voiced their concerns, which I keep repeating is one of the biggest mistakes political parties have made globally in the last couple of years and paid the price including the US elections where deplorable was the word used that effective handed Trump the title.
     
  20. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Christian Ziege

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    I have a marginally different perspective. It's that 'listening to the people' is actually people wanting politics to refresh. To offer something modern, new, which isn't the same old same old. If that is 'not listening' then I agree. Otherwise, what is it politicians are not listening to? What are peoples concerns?

    So much of Brexit is abstract sound bites "listening to the will of the people" is one. "take back control" another, ignoring democracy the latest - all powerful sound bites which upon scrunity don't hold together too well. What do they actually mean? What is it people want, in a postive sense? None of Farage's underlying logic adds up or makes sense, only the sound bites work becaue they are emotive and people are not going into any of the detail.
     
    Last edited: 15 May 2019

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