Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[glorygloryeze]

Sure we will still buy salad from the EU, it will just be harder to import with border checks, more expensive due to a lower pound (have that now) and the UK might put on tariff on imports if we want to either protect our salad growing industry or retaliate for some of the EU tariffs on say our lamb. In short, barriers to trade are not good. Leaving the EU and the customs union where trade flows without tariffs or barriers at borders is a backward step whichever way you cut. If we want to keep that freedom we have to follow EU regulations - we'd have to produce food to the EU standards to have free access to sell into their market. Until tomorrow, we help set those standards. In the future we will still conform to those standards but we'll have no say.

Barriers to trade are indeed not good; who will put up that barrier: us or EU? It is us that wants a Free Trade agreement, do the EU? I'm sure the EU trades with other parts of the world that are not part of the EU, so all that stuff about 'standards' is a bit moot; if a product is in demand then it meets a 'standard'. Who checks the 'standards' right now across the EU anyway - are these checks done daily? Are they done daily wth good coming into the EU from outside it, or just tarrifs etc slapped on regardless? This is all politics and as i say, it comes down to Politics vs Economics.

For example, the UK is not going to have a separate car standard to the EU. No car makers would make cars just for the small UK market. We'd have cars with US or EU standards. Same applies to making cars in the UK - we have to make them to EU standards for export. Just in the future, we won't get a say in those standards.

If a car meets that standard of "this car and it's great to drive and safe etc" then it s in demand. Are Japanese cars only made to EU or US standards? Is all this 'standards' just politics? Surely the 'standards' are just to do with safety, whether they are practical for the area they are sold (i.e. left drive vs right drive) and whether they are of the right 'size' for the roads. Cars get bought and sold everywhere, again this is Politics vs Economics. BTW, Will BMW, Mercedes etc refuse to sell to us after we leave because at that point their products will no longer conform to our 'standards'?

What you and others don't seem to acknowledge is that most of our exports go to the EU - 45%.
8% of the EUs exports go to the UK

UK is one of the EU's biggest customers regardless of those figures. I'm sure for Ireland the UK is it's number one export market, so again this is Politics (should all countries act as one when it comes to trade?) vs Economics (actually do Ireland need the UK as a trading partner seeing that UK is Ireland's biggest export market and also land gateway to it's other export markets in the EU?).

Can you see who has a stronger negotiating hand, and which party needs which more?

Trade works both ways; we are a single country and you are combining all the trade wiTh 27 other countries; it has to be taken into account that a) those other 27 are not ONE country and b) there is a variance in the dependencies and trade with each one with and the UK (eg Ireland vs say, Austria).

Canada has a free trade agreement sure. But it does not cover services - what the UK does most, what is it 80% of our economy? THe Canada fta only covers certain areas and would not be suited to the UK. Yes we can get a trade deal, but it will be a backward step for free trade and cost the UK. We can then make new trade deals with other nations, but most of our trade is with the EU, which is the same all over the world - people trade most with nations closest to them.

No-one is saying we should no trade with the EU, but that we should not be fixed into the Political machinations of the EU and also be freer to trade with he rest of the world on terms we decide and not on terms decided centrally for 28 countries (as though they are ONE country, which evidently they ar not). Oh and in terms of services, we are still important and in terms of financial services, as my post yesterday shows, we are still at the forefront of that even though we are leaving.

So...no massive changes, you'll still get salad, the UK will still trade. Just in a less efficient, less free way. This will make the UK less attractive to the likes of Sony (already moved to Amsterdam), Japanese car firms etc etc. So no massive fast change that we'll notice too much, but a slow degrading of the UK economy. Something that has started already with investment into the UK falling.

You don't mention the financial organisations setting up here post-Brexit - some for the very first time. Also, foreign investment into the UK has been outstripping investment into France, Germany combined over the last few years or so, and London is no 1 city for investment in fintech firms. So i don't know what you mean by your last point really..

If you could point to benefits of brexit that make this slight degrading of the UK economy worthwhile I'd be eager to listen. But why are we doing this? What do we get back?

I and other have pointed out ad finitum, but as usual you wont acknowledge, so carry on moaning...

 

[SpurMeUp]

Barriers to trade are indeed not good; who will put up that barrier: us or EU? It is us that wants a Free Trade agreement, do the EU? I'm sure the EU trades with other parts of the world that are not part of the EU, so all that stuff about 'standards' is a bit moot; if a product is in demand then it meets a 'standard'. Who checks the 'standards' right now across the EU anyway - are these checks done daily? Are they done daily wth good coming into the EU from outside it, or just tarrifs etc slapped on regardless? This is all politics and as i say, it comes down to Politics vs Economics.



If a car meets that standard of "this car and it's great to drive and safe etc" then it s in demand. Are Japanese cars only made to EU or US standards? Is all this 'standards' just politics? Surely the 'standards' are just to do with safety, whether they are practical for the area they are sold (i.e. left drive vs right drive) and whether they are of the right 'size' for the roads. Cars get bought and sold everywhere, again this is Politics vs Economics. BTW, Will BMW, Mercedes etc refuse to sell to us after we leave because at that point their products will no longer conform to our 'standards'?



UK is one of the EU's biggest customers regardless of those figures. I'm sure for Ireland the UK is it's number one export market, so again this is Politics (should all countries act as one when it comes to trade?) vs Economics (actually do Ireland need the UK as a trading partner seeing that UK is Ireland's biggest export market and also land gateway to it's other export markets in the EU?).



Trade works both ways; we are a single country and you are combining all the trade wiTh 27 other countries; it has to be taken into account that a) those other 27 are not ONE country and b) there is a variance in the dependencies and trade with each one with and the UK (eg Ireland vs say, Austria).



No-one is saying we should no trade with the EU, but that we should not be fixed into the Political machinations of the EU and also be freer to trade with he rest of the world on terms we decide and not on terms decided centrally for 28 countries (as though they are ONE country, which evidently they ar not). Oh and in terms of services, we are still important and in terms of financial services, as my post yesterday shows, we are still at the forefront of that even though we are leaving.



You don't mention the financial organisations setting up here post-Brexit - some for the very first time. Also, foreign investment into the UK has been outstripping investment into France, Germany combined over the last few years or so, and London is no 1 city for investment in fintech firms. So i don't know what you mean by your last point really..



I and other have pointed out ad finitum, but as usual you wont acknowledge, so carry on moaning...

With respect that shows up a lack of understanding and your lack of evidence. I respect you for giving it bash. I have a question for you. How did so many people become duped, unable to see what you can? Did they get fooled by economists who all pretty much can see - and evidence - that brexit is not good for the UK economy? Even our own government are explicit - there will be significant % drops to GPD. They are just making this up, after studying all the data? But you on the other hand who probably hasn't studied the data, are correct?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nancial-services-banking-impact-a8975711.html Sure it is complex and you may also have a Brexit bounce where companies set up in the UK. But you have to see the overall picture. The financial markets have and that's a 10% write-down on the UK. The £ worth 10% less reflecting what most logical sensible people can see. That you can't point to one brexit positive that stands up to scrutiny, says it all.

 

[scaramanga]

You said you want to compete against EU businesses - and that makes sense as we can sell to the eu easily. No need for 2 months shipping lead time to the US etc. Having broadly similar tax and regulations regimes to EU nations facilitates trade. It means you compete with other companies in the EU on a broadly fair footing.

All nations protect their own. Heard of America First? Probably the best way to leverage or compete with the US, China etc who are much larger than the UK is to gang up with the smaller european nations who share a lot of our ethics, ideals and standards. When France, Portugal, Spain, the UK lost their colonies - their reach over the globe - the EU provided a way for them to maintain global influence.

I think you have a fundamental flaw in your thinking regarding economics in general.

If you approach the issue with the assumption that governments should level the playing field and make all competitors equal (as you have), then the EU makes sense.

If you believe that competition is what creates both wealth and advancement, the EU can only be a problem, not a solution.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Haha, as usual @SpurMeUp you see what you want to see, which is "Brexit = Doomsday", despite all the other narratives and news to the contrary:

"The UK attracted more foreign direct investment (FDI) than any other country in Europe between 2015 and 2018, with nearly four thousand projects bringing in more capital investment than second and third placed Germany and France combined."
"David Sproul, Partner and Chief Executive of Deloitte UK and North West Europe, added:
“There is much in this report for the UK to be proud of. The levels of investment the country has attracted over previous years from foreign investors is testimony to the excellent business, legal, regulatory and social environment that the UK has created. Yet as the UK nears its departure from the European Union there are some major issues that need to be addressed in order to maintain the country’s status as one of the world’s most popular FDI destinations. Whether that’s the ability to access the best talent or safeguard supply chains, uncertainty around Brexit could threaten the UK’s current high standing. It is how government and business adapt and respond to this change that will shape the UK’s future economic strength and success.”
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag...les/power-up-uk-inward-investment-report.html

"Reverse Brexit? Report States Over a Thousand EU Financial Firms to Open Offices in the UK": https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/20...eu-financial-firms-to-open-offices-in-the-uk/

Not to mention the IMF report i posted earlier..but no let's just continually pick up all the doomsday articles written by sections of the press that are still unhappy we are leaving

Anyway, i think i showed enough that Brexit does not automatically equal Armageddon...but no matter what is shown on that front you will still keep moaning, so carry on....

 

[scaramanga]

Haha, as usual @SpurMeUp you see what you want to see, which is "Brexit = Doomsday", despite all the other narratives and news to the contrary:

"The UK attracted more foreign direct investment (FDI) than any other country in Europe between 2015 and 2018, with nearly four thousand projects bringing in more capital investment than second and third placed Germany and France combined."
"David Sproul, Partner and Chief Executive of Deloitte UK and North West Europe, added:
“There is much in this report for the UK to be proud of. The levels of investment the country has attracted over previous years from foreign investors is testimony to the excellent business, legal, regulatory and social environment that the UK has created. Yet as the UK nears its departure from the European Union there are some major issues that need to be addressed in order to maintain the country’s status as one of the world’s most popular FDI destinations. Whether that’s the ability to access the best talent or safeguard supply chains, uncertainty around Brexit could threaten the UK’s current high standing. It is how government and business adapt and respond to this change that will shape the UK’s future economic strength and success.”
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag...les/power-up-uk-inward-investment-report.html

"Reverse Brexit? Report States Over a Thousand EU Financial Firms to Open Offices in the UK": https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/20...eu-financial-firms-to-open-offices-in-the-uk/

Not to mention the IMF report i posted earlier..but no let's just continually pick up all the doomsday articles written by sections of the press that are still unhappy we are leaving

Anyway, i think i showed enough that Brexit does not automatically equal Armageddon...but no matter what is shown on that front you will still keep moaning, so carry on....

In about 10 pages time you'll be accused of not having posted any of those links and have to dig back through your own posts to prove it.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Haha, as usual @SpurMeUp you see what you want to see, which is "Brexit = Doomsday", despite all the other narratives and news to the contrary:

"The UK attracted more foreign direct investment (FDI) than any other country in Europe between 2015 and 2018, with nearly four thousand projects bringing in more capital investment than second and third placed Germany and France combined."
"David Sproul, Partner and Chief Executive of Deloitte UK and North West Europe, added:
“There is much in this report for the UK to be proud of. The levels of investment the country has attracted over previous years from foreign investors is testimony to the excellent business, legal, regulatory and social environment that the UK has created. Yet as the UK nears its departure from the European Union there are some major issues that need to be addressed in order to maintain the country’s status as one of the world’s most popular FDI destinations. Whether that’s the ability to access the best talent or safeguard supply chains, uncertainty around Brexit could threaten the UK’s current high standing. It is how government and business adapt and respond to this change that will shape the UK’s future economic strength and success.”
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag...les/power-up-uk-inward-investment-report.html

"Reverse Brexit? Report States Over a Thousand EU Financial Firms to Open Offices in the UK": https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/20...eu-financial-firms-to-open-offices-in-the-uk/

Not to mention the IMF report i posted earlier..but no let's just continually pick up all the doomsday articles written by sections of the press that are still unhappy we are leaving

Anyway, i think i showed enough that Brexit does not automatically equal Armageddon...but no matter what is shown on that front you will still keep moaning, so carry on....

So are you suggesting that a positive of Brexit is greater investment into the UK?

Not being facetious did you even read all of that? Like this bit:

The impact of Brexit and ensuring the UK’s continued success as a destination for FDI
“Brexit is, of course, the focus for much attention for prospective investors in the UK, but it is too soon to tell what impact Brexit will have on inward investment levels”, commented Deloitte’s Chief Economist, Ian Stewart. “The scale of the type of investments cited in this report means foreign investors take a long-term view when considering a country’s continued competitiveness and we will have to wait to see how Brexit impacts on those strategies.”

You are actually quoting stuff that contradicts your own arguments.

Yes the UK has been terrifically successful as a gateway into the EU. Investment into the UK has been high while we have been in the EU. What do you think the future would hold? Just use a bit of simple logic. Will Japanese companies exporting to the EU choose the UK as their European hub in the future, with 500m consumers in the EU that we are separated from? Sony already upped sticks, and Japanese car firms are lowering production in the UK. It is simple logic. Anyone without an agenda can see the challenges the UK could face. Including our current government.

Can you be clear, are you saying the UK governments predictions re. economic impacts of Breixt are wrong?

 

[SpurMeUp]

I think you have a fundamental flaw in your thinking regarding economics in general.

If you approach the issue with the assumption that governments should level the playing field and make all competitors equal (as you have), then the EU makes sense.

If you believe that competition is what creates both wealth and advancement, the EU can only be a problem, not a solution.

Nope. Governments can provide fair conditions to trade. That is all. No one would suggest making all companies equal. That would be impossible. The flaw seems to be in your thinking.

You said you want to compete with EU firms. You have that now. What is stopping you?

Post Brexit, possible tariffs would harm your potential to compete. Divergent standards can reduce your ability to sell into the EU but could help with sales into other places like the US - provided the US let you sell into their market tariff-free and that transport and other logistical costs don't stop you.

 

[Grays_1890]

Happy Brexit to everyone including SpurMeBlushes who has been wrong about things being all doom and gloom. I’ve just completed a 3 day sales mission in Europe signed some pretty hefty contracts.

the Sky started falling in yet?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Happy Brexit to everyone including SpurMeBlushes who has been wrong about things being all doom and gloom. I’ve just completed a 3 day sales mission in Europe signed some pretty hefty contracts.

the Sky started falling in yet?

Will we have to use the non-EU passport lanes from Saturday? Or will that go in a year's time? I guess we still have EU passports for now? Congrats on the contracts.

 

[Grays_1890]

Why bother getting involved with it, he is like a dog with a bone over Brexit and even now its going to happen he is still churning out the same stuff.

He moves the posts to suit his argument. Brexit isn’t as bad as he made out it would be, now he is repackaging his predictions to save face. Silly man

 

[Grays_1890]

Will we have to use the non-EU passport lanes from Saturday? Or will that go in a year's time? I guess we still have EU passports for now? Congrats on the contracts.

I was welcomed to Germany with open arms so I wouldn’t care which passport lane that’s all aesthetics.

Thanks means I make some fair corn in Q1

 

[SpurMeUp]

He moves the posts to suit his argument. Brexit isn’t as bad as he made out it would be, now he is repackaging his predictions to save face. Silly man

This is a misconception. I have constantly said Brexit won't be armageddon, but a slow degrading of the UK economy and influence on the international stage. What predictions have I 'repackaged'? Silly you for not being able to back up your nonsense.

 

[Grays_1890]

This is a misconception. I have constantly said Brexit won't be armageddon, but a slow degrading of the UK economy and influence on the international stage. What predictions have I 'repackaged'? Silly you for not being able to back up your nonsense.

bull crap

you consistently said it would be Armageddon, blamed Brexit for things that MDs said was not the case to suit your agenda and ignored reports of prosperity and growth.

Anyway your done, stick a fork in you.

Take it you will be shopping off to avoid the carnage?

 

[SpurMeUp]

bull crap

you consistently said it would be Armageddon, blamed Brexit for things that MDs said was not the case to suit your agenda and ignored reports of prosperity and growth.

Anyway your done, stick a fork in you.

Take it you will be shopping off to avoid the carnage?

Where and when did I say that? MDs? What are you on about you dumb fuk.

 

[Grays_1890]

Where and when did I say that? MDs? What are you on about you dumb fuk.

One of the firms leaving said it wasn’t Brexit and you said it would have been and they were paying lip service to not spoil UK relations. Made up crap like that you whinging sour face cnut

 

[Grays_1890]

Someone’s feeling abit sore that we are leaving Friday and I love it

 

[parklane1]

He moves the posts to suit his argument. Brexit isn’t as bad as he made out it would be, now he is repackaging his predictions to save face. Silly man

Never been anything different from day one from him, when some posters have made good points he has ignored them and carried on with his own agenda. I learnt a while back its pointless debating with him as its the same over and over.

I do not know if he is silly or just sad. Its done now and all he wants to do is rehash the same old flimflam.

 

[SpurMeUp]

One of the firms leaving said it wasn’t Brexit and you said it would have been and they were paying lip service to not spoil UK relations. Made up crap like that you whinging sour face cnut

you what! You can barely speak English. I would call you a clam back but you lack the depth and warmth of one.

 

[Grays_1890]

you what! You can barely speak English. I would call you a clam back but you lack the depth and warmth of one.

An MD of a company said scaling UK operations was not Brexit related and you made up a story of him paying lip service to not upset UK relations.

ultimately you was making stuff up to drive your agenda.

Anyway will let you carry on sulking.

adios

 

[SpurMeUp]

An MD of a company said scaling UK operations was not Brexit related and you made up a story of him paying lip service to not upset UK relations.

ultimately you was making stuff up to drive your agenda.

Anyway will let you carry on sulking.

adios

I'll take your word for it. The funny thing is I am an MD of a company, and I'm wasting my time talking shyte on here. Make of that what you will. Listen no hard feelings. 'You won.' I am happy for you. Brexit has never been all bad or all good, its too complex to be complely black or white. I hope it delivers more than 2 opposing groups. There has to be some substance to it. That's the intrigue of discussing it. XX