*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Southampton ***

[Cochise]

The thing with the diamond is it's great for allowing a certain level of attacking flexibility with the downside being that when we caught in transition, no one is where they need to be. There is always a tonne of space in front of the fullbacks and behind the lone pivot (Winks). N'Dombele had a relatively fluid role and worked really well finding the spaces that Eriksen vacated. We doubled up on their right back in this manner multiple times with the result being Son being released in behind.

Eriksen does struggle in the #10 role though as we expect that player to do a lot with their back to goal, playing wall passes with team mates to draw opponents out of position. He can't shield the ball as well as Lamela or even Dele which meant that not a lot stuck up there unlike in the Leicester game where Lamela had so much joy.

The fullbacks weren't always expected to be so far up, in fact Son and to a lesser extent Sissoko took up wide positions quite often with Aurier and Rose at times tucking in alongside Winks to make a two or a three man bank in front of the CB's.

 

[Bullet]

Big difference was Son's position, previously he'd be dead central.

On Saturday he stayed wide, isolated the full back and gave Kane room to operate.

Agreed, Son playing wide left had sooo many benefits. Noticeable also that he could get hold of overhit crosses from the right, and either cut in to shoot, or play in Ndombele.

 

[Pirate55]

We have never recovered from getting genuine width once we sold Walker. When we had Rose and Walker bombing down the flanks we looked unplayable at times.

Just shows how important good full backs are to our set up. If Sessignon/Rose is the answer on the left, then maybe Sissoko can do the job on the right. Certainly no others in our current squad are capable of fulfilling that role imo. We need a new recruit urgently in this position. Maybe the lad from Leicester is the one. In fact both Leicester full backs look ideal and it is no real surprise they are currently propelling their team to lofty heights. Imagine what they would be like in our team. I think transformative. Pace, power and the ability to both defend and deliver decent balls.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Just shows how important good full backs are to our set up. If Sessignon/Rose is the answer on the left, then maybe Sissoko can do the job on the right. Certainly no others in our current squad are capable of fulfilling that role imo. We need a new recruit urgently in this position. Maybe the lad from Leicester is the one. In fact both Leicester full backs look ideal and it is no real surprise they are currently propelling their team to lofty heights. Imagine what they would be like in our team. I think transformative. Pace, power and the ability to both defend and deliver decent balls.

Pereira looks very good going forward and is an exciting FB
Chillwell looks and plays IMO like Ben Davies
The lad at nice Atal really is the business when it comes to attacking full backs

 

[braineclipse]

I thought compared to the Villa game it was much better. The tempo, the getting in behind them. Saints looked ok, but I was pretty confident we would get there.

I think the system makes more sense the more I think about it. If you accept our squad is older, that Kane should be managing himself more, that the backline has lost a bit of pace, that the midfield aren’t all going to be eager beavers running through walls for 90 mins because the Manager tells them to, a diamond makes a lot of sense. We are relying on more experienced players and their smarts. We may not get described as animals, but I think we’ll see the benefit of it as the season goes on.

Like I said, I hope you're right.

I have no doubts we can make it work in attack, the benefits of having two strikers and a #10 in the team, the counter attacking benefits of often leaving three players fairly high up the pitch are obvious.

I'm concerned about the defensive solidity. We know 4-4-2 can work given the right players, but you depend on a hard working and disciplined midfield four. With the diamond you can't really expect the #10 to get back and make it a real midfield 4, just too demanding in terms of stamina and high intensity runs.

There's no natural role for any of the front three to pick up opposing full backs as they're not usually playing wide. Compared to a more traditional 4-3-3 at least the wide attackers are in a natural position to do that defensive job when needed.

Without relentless pressing the front three will be quite easily bypassed, leaving a back four with three midfielders to protect them. The wider two in midfield will have to cover opposing full backs fairly often. That just leaves so much space for the other two midfielders to cover.

It makes for open games, counter attacks, chances both ways. Sure, that can be preferred at times, but we've come this far with defensive solidity as an important leg to stand on.

 

[Pirate55]

Pereira looks very good going forward and is an exciting FB
Chillwell looks and plays IMO like Ben Davies
The lad at nice Atal really is the business when it comes to attacking full backs

Chill well has much better delivery than Davies and gets himself into much more advanced positions. Davies is a solid defensive full back ok for backup but not really first choice.

Don't know much about Atal, but both the Leicester players already have PL experience.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Chill well has much better delivery than Davies and gets himself into much more advanced positions. Davies is a solid defensive full back ok for backup but not really first choice.

Don't know much about Atal, but both the Leicester players already have PL experience.

But chillwell can’t defend very well

 

[scaramanga]

Hardly fair to use XG for a game we played with ten men though right?

I think we deserved to win at Leceister and not many teams are going to be able to say that this season. No doubt Villa first half was bad and Saudi Sportswashing Machine terrible, but since then I think we’ve been better with the ball and just needed to sort out the solidity,

I also think the trend is just going to take a bit of trust in Poch. If we accept that most years we start slower and ramp up, but that last season was reversed because of the WC and the CL run, League form in 2019 is going to look worse. We’re basically going to have two periods of traditionally slower form smashed together because of the WC circumstance. I expect us to ramp up good and proper over the next few months and to an extent be back to normal.

I don't think it makes much difference. That diamond leaves us scrambling all over the pitch, chasing the ball around like we have 10 or even 9 men.

With Sissoko on the pitch that makes it 8 when we have the ball.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I don't think it makes much difference. That diamond leaves us scrambling all over the pitch, chasing the ball around like we have 10 or even 9 men.

With Sissoko on the pitch that makes it 8 when we have the ball.

But what you’re saying suggests teams have never been successful with a diamond, that it is a fundementally flawed formation as opposed to others, when in actual fact it has its strengths and weaknesses relative to the situation it is used just like they all do.

 

[braineclipse]

But what you’re saying suggests teams have never been successful with a diamond, that it is a fundementally flawed formation as opposed to others, when in actual fact it has its strengths and weaknesses relative to the situation it is used just like they all do.

Name one team that's achieved success playing a diamond consistently or even fairly often.

Last night was a good example of what I said above. Relentless pressure and you can make it work. When that's not there the front three get bypassed or have to run themselves into the ground to cover and utterly exhaust themselves leading to problems later in the game.

If it was being used sparsely, for periods of games when game conditions were favourable for its strengths and weaknesses I would have no issue with it. Perhaps for entire games against particular teams (Leicester away and Bayern at home, away or bloody anywhere not being amongst them).

As the go to default formation... It seems like a good way for the manager to get sacked. I might be wrong, I don't watch as much football as I once did. Please enlighten me about the teams that succeed with it.

 

[scaramanga]

But what you’re saying suggests teams have never been successful with a diamond, that it is a fundementally flawed formation as opposed to others, when in actual fact it has its strengths and weaknesses relative to the situation it is used just like they all do.

I'm not saying it can never work, bit out squad has been built around 4231.

The only player the diamond really suits is Sissoko as it tries to bypass midfield and requires a huge amount of lateral bull in a china shop.

The diamond used to work well against a flat 4 and provide that between the linesness that Poch is so good at creating. Against a 4231 or a 433 (which we will be most of the time) it just gets outnumbered and dragged all around the pitch.

Our players were dead on their feet last night very early on and I don't believe our fitness levels have changed all that much.

Let's not forget why 4231 came into existence - two pivots are more defensively sound and more creative than a single holding midfielder. Now defensively you.can get away with the holding player if you have a peak Kante or peak Wanyama but once you're on the ball you need a player taking it off their toes, so you might as well be playing a 2 and them you don't need a dedicated DM and can put a passer in there.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm not saying it can never work, bit out squad has been built around 4231.

The only player the diamond really suits is Sissoko as it tries to bypass midfield and requires a huge amount of lateral bull in a china shop.

The diamond used to work well against a flat 4 and provide that between the linesness that Poch is so good at creating. Against a 4231 or a 433 (which we will be most of the time) it just gets outnumbered and dragged all around the pitch.

Our players were dead on their feet last night very early on and I don't believe our fitness levels have changed all that much.

Let's not forget why 4231 came into existence - two pivots are more defensively sound and more creative than a single holding midfielder. Now defensively you.can get away with the holding player if you have a peak Kante or peak Wanyama but once you're on the ball you need a player taking it off their toes, so you might as well be playing a 2 and them you don't need a dedicated DM and can put a passer in there.

I’m convinced he won’t play 4-2-3-1 as he has to keep his favourites in and they don’t fit into that formation

 

[fernadez]

Name one team that's achieved success playing a diamond consistently or even fairly often.

Last night was a good example of what I said above. Relentless pressure and you can make it work. When that's not there the front three get bypassed or have to run themselves into the ground to cover and utterly exhaust themselves leading to problems later in the game.

If it was being used sparsely, for periods of games when game conditions were favourable for its strengths and weaknesses I would have no issue with it. Perhaps for entire games against particular teams (Leicester away and Bayern at home, away or bloody anywhere not being amongst them).

As the go to default formation... It seems like a good way for the manager to get sacked. I might be wrong, I don't watch as much football as I once did. Please enlighten me about the teams that succeed with it.

Exactly, Pep brought it in before us and then quickly abandoned it, and CIty have far superior players to us.

I can't think of a modern team that plays a diamond formation. You're simply leaving yourself exposed all over the pitch when everyone else is playing a double pivot or a tight three in midfield.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Exactly, Pep bought it in before us and then quickly abandoned it, and CIty have far superior players to us.

I can't think of a modern team that plays a diamond formation. You're simply leaving yourself exposed all over the pitch when everyone else is playing a double pivot or a tight three in midfield.

It’s a flimflam system created to keep tactics fans happy

 

[parklane1]

It’s a flimflam system created to keep football manger tactics fans happy

Changed it for you.