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Moussa Sissoko

the dza said:
I disagree there. I posted similar in the match thread, but if Winks had the exact same game as Sissoko had v Palace, he'd get praised to the heavens for it imo. Sissoko had a good game v Palace by any standard, not just his own. He had a positive influence on the game in attack and defence and I'd argue that the reason we didn't score more was because Lamela, Dele and Kane didn't use the ball well v Palace. Sissoko got the ball to the attacking players in good positions on plenty of occasions and spread the play well, but our attacking players simply fumbled too often.
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If Winks had performed like that I'd have been very, very disappointed in him.
 
harr1984 said:
Nayim, Sissoko is one of the few subjects I disagree with you on. FWIW, those who defend Sissoko have only ever said he is a decent enough squad player nothing more. Whereas those who constantly slate him have said he's complete brick which is/was completely over the top. Noone defending him has been to the other end of the spectrum claiming he is amazing, simply that he does his job as a squad player - and a hard working one at that....
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Theres over 200 pages here of fair criticism being shouted down because reasons.

We will have to agree to disagree, but IMO those claiming clarity and reason are the very same bending reality to suit a narrative.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Yes. He is doing as well as he ever has, and even then - hardly the realms of "untapped potential", is it? He's gone from terrible to "meh".
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I don't think you have factored it in. You were only talking about people who were slagging him off and who now are on the Sissoko bandwagon. There have been people who have been saying he is not as bad a footballer as his performances might indicate (you don't get 50+ caps for France if you're that brick) and now that the performances are beginning to match the ability these people's opinions are now being vindicated. Now if you choose to still see him as a "meh" player, that's up to you. I see him as someone who can now lay claim to a starting position, even when everyone else is fit, depending on who the opponent is.
 
alekaras said:
I don't think you have factored it in. You were only talking about people who were slagging him off and who now are on the Sissoko bandwagon. There have been people who have been saying he is not as bad a footballer as his performances might indicate (you don't get 50+ caps for France if you're that brick) and now that the performances are beginning to match the ability these people's opinions are now being vindicated. Now if you choose to still see him as a "meh" player, that's up to you. I see him as someone who can now lay claim to a starting position, even when everyone else is fit, depending on who the opponent is.
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No, I havent, and so would suggest you have mis read my posts/intent.
 
harr1984 said:
Nayim, Sissoko is one of the few subjects I disagree with you on. FWIW, those who defend Sissoko have only ever said he is a decent enough squad player nothing more. Whereas those who constantly slate him have said he's complete brick which is/was completely over the top. Noone defending him has been to the other end of the spectrum claiming he is amazing, simply that he does his job as a squad player - and a hard working one at that....
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I agree with you completely here. I think some of those who have criticised Sissoko in the past (definitely including Nayim and Scara) have backed themselves into such a corner with their previous criticism that it is now difficult for them to admit that they were wrong about him (I know Scara actually doesn't have it in him to ever admit he was wrong about absolutely anything ;)) and that Sissoko is proving that it was possible for him to be a valuable member of our squad as quite a few of us on here always thought.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I agree with you completely here. I think some of those who have criticised Sissoko in the past (definitely including Nayim and Scara) have backed themselves into such a corner with their previous criticism that it is now difficult for them to admit that they were wrong about him (I know Scara actually doesn't have it in him to ever admit he was wrong about absolutely anything ;)) and that Sissoko is proving that it was possible for him to be a valuable member of our squad as quite a few of us on here always thought.
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The backfire effect, I believe it is called.
 
scaramanga said:
This is as accurate a description of Sissoko as I've seen on this forum.

On a good day, he "not a complete liability." Still does stuff that I find it hard to believe someone employed as a footballer can do, still doesn't progress our chances of scoring, etc. But he does work hard and he does try, which is why I'll never make the insults about him personally (only his ability) and why comparisons to Forrest Gump (a genuinely decent person who can run fast and not much else) are so accurate.

On a good day, he's a Championship level footballer - considering Wanyama's form and the quality of our opposition, he didn't look completely out of place on Saturday. Might not against the likes of Fulham or the early cup rounds either. The gap between him and PL level footballers is startling though.
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You're a funny guy and I know a lot of what you say is to get a rise and continue the joke, but this post looks like you are being balanced and serious. And I just......it's just not true. The idea that he doesn't progress our chances of scoring - when the graphic you wanted me to see shows him as one of our top 3 open play chance creators from the game - is just wrong. No one would say he is one of our creative lynchpins, but he is playing his role.

You're also using the old trick his detractors like to use after a good game against a mid table side - 'that's his level'. But he was also one of our best players against Emirates Marketing Project. He's played the majority of our games in what is our best ever PL start. And most people are now acknowledging he is playing well. To call him a Championship level footballer at this point is just nonsense.

And Nayim, to call even his performance against Palace a 6/10...it is you who has a special Sissoko scale. Nobody else. You can't honestly look at his performance against Palace, pick out every little possible negative thing he did, call it a 6/10 and still claim that you are the one being the most objective.
 
alekaras said:
I don't think you have factored it in. You were only talking about people who were slagging him off and who now are on the Sissoko bandwagon. There have been people who have been saying he is not as bad a footballer as his performances might indicate (you don't get 50+ caps for France if you're that brick) and now that the performances are beginning to match the ability these people's opinions are now being vindicated. Now if you choose to still see him as a "meh" player, that's up to you. I see him as someone who can now lay claim to a starting position, even when everyone else is fit, depending on who the opponent is.
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Quite - I think his progression has gone like this:

First season with us - back up. Only used when absolutely needed. Terrible start, then the team got in some form and rightly he didn't have an opportunity to get back in.
Second season - solid squad player. Filled in a number of roles and played his part in some big victories for us and another pretty consistent League season. Kept it simple, didn't do anything too special in possession but played his part in keeping us solid when called upon.
Third season - he is playing like a man who could play his part in the first 11 in any game and have it not be seen as a weaker starting line up. Still solid but now doing more in possession.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I agree with you completely here. I think some of those who have criticised Sissoko in the past (definitely including Nayim and Scara) have backed themselves into such a corner with their previous criticism that it is now difficult for them to admit that they were wrong about him (I know Scara actually doesn't have it in him to ever admit he was wrong about absolutely anything ;)) and that Sissoko is proving that it was possible for him to be a valuable member of our squad as quite a few of us on here always thought.
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Have I not given a fair critique of him? Have I not stated what he does well, what he doesnt do well, noted his improvement, offered my thoughts on how best to use him?

Or have I simply stated "He is brick" relentlessly?

I have, IMO of course, been consistent in that it is not personal, there is no agenda, and I simply say what I see.

Two years ago he was not a valuable member of the squad. Despite BoLs repetition, one year ago he was not a valuable member of the squad. Couple of odd games where he wasnt a complete liability? Maybe. But not a player of value.

This season is the best he has ever been.

Relative to his previous form, he is basically world class. Relative to the form we expect of a player? He is at best a 6/10 so far.

That is not trying to hammer him, that is observation. He has got to the stage of "doing a job" and not being a complete liability, its not like he is adding value.

You are of course free to disagree, its what keeps the world turning around here ;O) but I do resent the notion I have an agenda, and am trying to save face etc, it simply isnt true.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
And Nayim, to call even his performance against Palace a 6/10...it is you who has a special Sissoko scale. Nobody else. You can't honestly look at his performance against Palace, pick out every little possible negative thing he did, call it a 6/10 and still claim that you are the one being the most objective.
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What is 6/10 if not average?

I thought he wasnt bad, but I thought he wasnt good. That is objectivity.

He did some things I liked, and some things I didnt (or didnt do some things I would have liked).

I thought his performance was competent, but lacking in the areas where he needed to make a difference.

Half the team were 6/10.

I suggest you read what I write, and try not to contextualise it with the bias you assume I have.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
What is 6/10 if not average?

I thought he wasnt bad, but I thought he wasnt good. That is objectivity.

He did some things I liked, and some things I didnt (or didnt do some things I would have liked).

I thought his performance was competent, but lacking in the areas where he needed to make a difference.

Half the team were 6/10.

I suggest you read what I write, and try not to contextualise it with the bias you assume I have.
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Depends on how you class 6/10. Objectively 6/10 is slightly above average, but in the real world where nobody ever scores a player below a 5 or 6 then it's significantly below.
 
scaramanga said:
Depends on how you class 6/10. Objectively 6/10 is slightly above average, but in the real world where nobody ever scores a player below a 5 or 6 then it's significantly below.
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For me 10/10 is virtual perfection, hardly ever to be given.
Meaning 9/10 is about as good a performance as youre going to get.
7/8 being good to very good
6 Being good enough/average/not bad

Obviously everyone has their own scale to view things by
 
Here's roughly how I score a player, obviously this is the condensed simple version, the real system is full of really tough math stuff

1 - Scores 2 own goals and Punches Poch
2 - Wanders around the pitch and nips off for a quick fag behind the dugout
3 - Can't take a legal throw in and gets sent off or gives away a couple of penalties
4 - Wanders around the pitch in a daze hoping nobody passes to him
5 - Tries hard but messes things up by passing to the opposition, linesman or his mum in row Z
6 - Doesn't do much right or wrong, makes up the numbers and is just a bit Meh average
7 - Plays well, makes a contribution, comes up with a save, goal or assist that's not crucial but icing on the cake
8 - Comes up with a crucial save, goal or an assist or is in command of his area of control
9 - Match winner, bosses the game, makes that match winning save or goal
10 - The Daddy, no one can get near him runs the game like a GHod

Based upon the above, for me, he was a 4 but over the last few games has progressed to a 5 or 6
 
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