1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Thanks, scara
    Dismiss Notice

Mourinho - What Next?

Discussion in 'General Football' started by ShelfLife, 25 Sep 2013.

  1. Yiddo

    Yiddo Dean Richards

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    6,339
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Location:
    Lurking
    Vastly overrated.
     
  2. Yiddo

    Yiddo Dean Richards

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    6,339
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Location:
    Lurking
    The league is much stronger than it was when Mourinho was dominating it with his big bank balance.
     
  3. Cochise

    Cochise Michael Carrick

    Joined:
    1 Sep 2013
    Messages:
    6,744
    Likes Received:
    1,779
    I rate Mourinho as a coach. He's not afraid to change things and although his football isn't the most eye catching he is a tactician. I do agree though that his next job should be similar to what LVG did with AZ. Mourinho would shut a lot of mouth's if he suddenly took a mid/upper table team to a championship.
     
  4. braineclipse

    braineclipse Andy Thompson

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    16,975
    Likes Received:
    4,062
    Disagree.

    The season before Mourinho took over was Arsenal's invincible season.

    Liverpool were in the CL final in 04/05 (Mou's first PL season), Arsenal were in the CL final in 05/06, Liverpool again in 06/07 followed by the United-Chelsea final in 07/08.

    This was not a time of weakness for the top teams in England. The league might be stronger now as in the mid-table and lower half teams might be stronger now, but the top teams all play the same teams and compete with each other.

    After Mou left Emirates Marketing Project eventually joined the top, but at the same time both Liverpool and Arsenal were significantly weaker than they were previously. And I would argue that the same was the case with United after Ronaldo left.
     
  5. galeforce

    galeforce Tony Galvin

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    27,527
    Likes Received:
    12,296
  6. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover Cecil Poynton

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    12,664
    Likes Received:
    5,179
    Location:
    Up your arse
    I know a guy who is a massive madrid fan he is actually from there as well and he told me that they hate him out there and that the is and has been for years graffiti all around the city ****ging Mourinho off.

    For my mind I think he is quite a good coach and obviously knows his stuff he has also chosen the right clubs at the right time to go to.

    Do not like the stuff with the press a bit like with Sherwood but I am not sure it is always the managers fault because they are contracted to give press conferences. Unless they take a leaf out of Pete Sampras's book and he was the master of press conferences then the press will always twist what they say.
     
  7. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover Cecil Poynton

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    12,664
    Likes Received:
    5,179
    Location:
    Up your arse
    I absolutely mother fcuking hope so, nearly put me off football.

    Give me the German style any day.

    Will be interested with this world cup because I have a lot of love for the African sides and how they play with pace and fluidity far more pleasing on the eye. I also feel we in England have a far better chance of copying or mastering this style of play.
     
  8. galeforce

    galeforce Tony Galvin

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    27,527
    Likes Received:
    12,296
    I find the evolution interesting, I enjoy a good defensive performance as much as an attacking one, more so in some cases.
     
  9. Danners9

    Danners9 Luke Young

    Joined:
    3 Feb 2012
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    In the sand
    Suits the Spanish sides. Bayern playing that way doesn't suit them. They've won the league but Dortmund beat them in both games and in the Super Cup. If it wasn't for their injuries, who knows... Bayern looked so awkward vs Real Madrid, just picked off at will with pace and power when they should have been doing that themselves. Muller is a strong forward, Ribery and Robben are fast wingers. No need to control the possession but do nothing with it, Real Madrid did to them what they should have been doing.
     
  10. Cochise

    Cochise Michael Carrick

    Joined:
    1 Sep 2013
    Messages:
    6,744
    Likes Received:
    1,779
    I don't hate tiki taka, but I prefer to watch football where players get to express themselves. It's kind of why I enjoyed watching us under Redknapp, because Luka and VdV were so free to open up teams whilst Bale and Lennon had the ability to produce something out of nothing to create a chance.
     
  11. braineclipse

    braineclipse Andy Thompson

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    16,975
    Likes Received:
    4,062
    Very interesting article, thanks for sharing! Resulted in a rather long winded, mainly off topic, rambling response from me...

    A couple of points I particularly noticed:

    -The defending set pieces issue. Clearly an issue both with Pep's Barca and his Bayern side. Very noticeable in the last two CL semi final losses for those two teams.

    -The pressing issue, highlighted by Messi's stats. Real managed to pass through Bayern's pressing brilliantly thanks to having a "back 6" (back 4 and two deep central midfielders) that all are very good to excellent on the ball along with two of them (Modric and Alonso) being downright outstanding on the ball.

    Compared to when Pep first took over at Barca I think a lot more teams are now much more capable of playing through the kind of extreme pressure that Pep wants his team to play with.

    I don't think tiki-taka is dead, not by a long shot. But I do think Pep will have to tweak his approach. He has to do something about the way his teams defend set pieces. The days when they could successfully defend set pieces by not giving them away in the first place through extreme possession and pressing will be very difficult to get back to I think.

    I also think he has to give himself more options for different approaches when attacking. I actually think this is what he tried to do with Ibrahimovic in '09, a signing that came the summer following the Chelsea semi-final close call mentioned in the article.

    When Bayern tried crossing the ball against Real this week and in Madrid Mandzukic lost just about every duel in the box against the excellent Pepe and Ramos. Mandzukic is supposed to be the "different option" at Bayern this season. I think it might have been a different story if they had succeeded in getting Lewandowski last summer, a player that's shown for Dortmund that he's capable of getting the better of those (and other) defenders physically.

    -----------------

    On Mourinho/Chelsea:

    Very interesting what they say about mistakes. Certainly when Chelsea went to Liverpool they managed to almost eliminate mistakes from their defensive play. Super impressive, particularly considering the changes in their line-up. Worth noting that their wide players in that game were Salad (later replaced by Willian) and Shcurrle. Players that all seem diligent to the extreme in their defensive work (at least under Mourinho). Why I think they've been preferred to Mata. Hazard wasn't against Atletico and Chelsea were punished.

    Interesting to see Hazard come out and more or less openly criticize Mourinho after that, when I'm almost certain Mourinho would have been more than a little upset with the way Hazard didn't track Juanfran. I think Hazard is just so good that Mourinho will accept his defensive weaknesses, but after what happened to Mata it's certainly a storyline worth noting.

    To me it's the kind of diligent defensive work that allowed Mourinho to counter Liverpool and previously almost counter Barca with Chelsea and actually stop Barca in their prime with Inter. The kind of diligent defensive work that most slightly smaller teams just haven't been capable of.
     
  12. galeforce

    galeforce Tony Galvin

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    27,527
    Likes Received:
    12,296
    pace is crucial as well, Madrid wouldn't be the same threat if they didn't have Bale and Ronaldo steaming up the pitch when the ball breaks, it should also be noted how calm the Madrid players were when Bayern did break down on the edge of their box, it wasn't a a clearance but often a square ball to a man in just enough space to release the runners
     
  13. Rorschach

    Rorschach Erik Thorstvedt

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    22,827
    Likes Received:
    11,444
    Location:
    ...here
    Interesting thread. Slightly OT but what team style would you like Spurs to try and emulate? I have to say I enjoy watching Dortmund the most.
     
  14. braineclipse

    braineclipse Andy Thompson

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    16,975
    Likes Received:
    4,062
    Agree fully.

    They also do a brilliant job in the transfer market, bring through some exciting young prospects, and manage to develop the players in their squad very nicely.
     
  15. diego_maradona

    diego_maradona Pedro Mendes Staff Member

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    9,220
    Likes Received:
    1,760
    Lol I said something similar in the New Spurs manager thread, but not as well. Why we need to put down managers, players and those in the game just because of some poor results is beyond me. Its symptomatic of today's football fan/media analysis, resulting in unrealistic expectations and 3 different managers a season!
     
  16. galeforce

    galeforce Tony Galvin

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    27,527
    Likes Received:
    12,296
    Its just hype, desperation for a narrative that isn't really there. Everything must be more than it is, every moment a watershed. You can't read anything from one performance, yet here we, after the Madridista's efforts that Europe's two premier managers, who have spent their careers thus collecting trophies for fun are being written off, its madness.
     
  17. Yiddo

    Yiddo Dean Richards

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2012
    Messages:
    6,339
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Location:
    Lurking

    Maybe world football was not as strong then? the game has evolved a lot since then.
     
  18. Lilywhite

    Lilywhite Stephen Kelly

    Joined:
    15 Nov 2013
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    7
    No the English top four in that period was super strong, that Jol managed to someone come so close to toppling that L'A rse team a couple of times made his sacking even more ****ing unfair.

    Moaninho isn't overrated, although I wouldn't want him at Spurs cos he is a massive spanner and plays dreadful football.
     
  19. Neymar

    Neymar Biggest Bozo 2015 Gooner WUM

    Joined:
    12 May 2012
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    41
    This is my take on mourinho (from another thread a few weeks ago). But on the question of if he is overrated. He probably is (if we are going off the general public's perception of him). Generally people overrate (the contributions and performances of) people who are at the top of their proffession, and underrate those who are deemed to be doing poorly.

     
  20. Neymar

    Neymar Biggest Bozo 2015 Gooner WUM

    Joined:
    12 May 2012
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    41
    Chelsea’s financial potential has been roughly the same ever since Abramovic came in (ie. they have had the ability to purchase almost anyone since 2003). Therefore, if you look at the stature of the Chelsea players in mourinho’s first two seasons, and compare them to the stature of the current Chelsea players, it’s very similar. In my opinion, Chelsea’s team from Mourinho’s first stint was a top 5 European side (as is the current one).

    In contrast, despite being invincible, I would argue that Arsenal were not a top 5 European side, then or now. Arsenal were invincible because the league was a lot weaker throughout (and because they had a lot of luck too). Arsenal’s team then isn’t much different to what they have now, and what they have had inbetween in terms of stature. They may have had the likes of Pires, Henry and Vieira then. But Arsenal have the likes of Ozil, Cazorla, Ramsey now. While I would agree that the previous 3 were better, I would argue it was only slightly. Pires; was rarely a regular in the French squad despite winning multiple individual awards in the epl. And despite also being a top player, Vieira only went for £13m, and wasn’t desperately wanted by the top tier of clubs (ie. Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan). Henry was obviously a genius (I fully accept that).

    If you go through the Arsenal team from the invincible’s era and compare it to the current one in terms of world-wide stature, I would argue it is very similar. Chelsea’s team pre and post the arrival of Abramovic is very different. There are no Mario Melchiot’s anymore.

    Back Four Invincibles: Cole, Campbell, Toure, Lauren
    Back Four Today: Gibbs, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Sagna

    Midfield Invincibles: Pires, Vieira, Gilberto, Ljungberg
    Midfield Today: Cazorla, Wheelchair, Ramsey, Walcott

    Strikers Invincibles: Henry, Bergkamp
    Strikers Today: Ozil, Giroud

    Between the first eleven’s it looks very similar (in my opinion) as both are full of established internationals for top international sides. However, when you look at the squad depth and benches of the two Arsenal sides, it becomes apparent that the current arsenal side is a lot stronger.

    The invincible side had the likes of: Reyes(20), Parlour(31), Edu, Cygan, Clichy(18), Keown(38), Kanu, Aliadiere(20), Wiltord.
    The current arsenal side’s squad is much deeper: Monreal(16 Spanish caps), Jenkinson, Vermaelen, Rosicky, Kallstrom, Diaby, Flamini, Arteta, Podolski, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Sanogo, Bendtner.

    In addition, When Mourinho was first here, the only title rivals were Arsenal and Man Utd. Now, there is Emirates Marketing Project too. But also due to the escalation of the epl’s popularity throughout the globe (in part due to the mega millions of Abramovic and Sheikh Mansour), all the mid and lower table clubs have more money to invest in their squads. This has meant that the best players in the mid table clubs are no longer called David Dunn or Robbie Savage. Even midtable clubs can now import exotic names such as Michu and Benteke (or just have local talents named lallana and rodriguez ;) ). With the mid and lower table sides being stronger it means that Chelsea’s financial advantage is more important as you need bigger squads with higher quality to deal with the intensity of competition throughout the year. Something that wasn’t as vital in the past.
     

Share This Page