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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

ricky2tricky4city said:
You're doing your best to write well thought out reasoned essays to try and change the view of someone that has basically lost the faith.

The bottom line is @Nigeyman wants to roll the dice. No matter what you or anyone else says....Nigey wants to roll the dice.

Its akin to the supporters who have moaned about Levy being to tight in the transfer market the last 3-4 years, the thinking just dismisses so much, explanation doesn't work. Probably because it's driven by emotion, which in itself is ok, emotions are good and besides we are not all the same.

The problem is, it belies the progress of the club, and for them personally, it robs them of the enjoyment of the period we are going thru. Perhaps our problem is our advancement is too slow for modern times, no-one has a plan that takes 10 years these days?, that patience horizon is just not in the make-up of many people.

We are blessed to have two men who absolutely excel at their jobs and get along.

And what this creates, and its a rare thing at not just our club but any club, is everyone the chairman, the manager, the players and all the staff are pulling in the same direction, thats a lovely thing to be part of, and as supporters, proud of.
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Love this post mate.
 
Thing is @Nigeyman was always a very positive poster and a joy to read. These unduly negative, glass half empty posts feel so uncharacteristic. Perhaps he is going through the same "small infant" induced sleep deprivation as Christian Eriksen. Would explain the drop in form.
 
Moving things along and back to more present Poch discussions, his relative silence since the weekend is very encouraging. When he goes quiet it means things are happening. I am excited for the new season already!
 
thfcsteff said:
Moving things along and back to more present Poch discussions, his relative silence since the weekend is very encouraging. When he goes quiet it means things are happening. I am excited for the new season already!
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Indeed, Steff! Micky Hazard was bullish on The Last Word on Spurs podcast a couple of days ago. Said that there is no way Poch is leaving, that Ossie sees him every week and that he has said he’s happy and positive.
 
thfcsteff said:
Answers in bold within the quote...
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Understand he was dealt a bad hand mate, I have acknowledged all that before. I'm not so sure about his media work being helpful this year but that's been done to death, agree to disagree. don't worry about safety net comment, its just how I see it.

yep again don't worry about whether I fear fans are obsessed with finances, and projects. I have noticed it quite a bit pop up on here, it was a fear of mine before and most interactions I had on here confirm it. no issues with people sold on the poch dream, just I'm not anymore, just a different view try not to hate me for it. Very proud of our progress as a club. Remember I said I love the club not the manager and the two shouldn't go hand in hand.

getting bogged down in continuity vs change manager argument, Watford have progressed with revolving door policy, feel indifferent to them. Already said before I'm aligned with your thoughts on Chelsea, poch has lost 2 and drawn 1 (not so important battle of the bridge as we had already blown it drawing to West Brom) of three very important games vs Chelsea in recent times...Mourinho, Conte, Sarri, when I feel our first 11's and squads were evenly matched.

mate I never said that! 'conversation went something like 'surely he deserves to carry on with proper backing, I agreed despite my views as he has earned it of course. only said a year, as in carry on next year. Never have I called on here for him to be sacked, or he should have one more year.

again only a statement that Levy has no issues in sacking managers if they are disastrous which Poch hasn't been.

Steff, glad we sorted things out before mate. things get lost in translation on here when being passionate about something they believe in, and friends can lose their way in heated debate. hope you can accept I could have reacted angrily before but didn't, just wanted things to be all good. In that respect because I need a break and time to reflect on all this, can we leave it at that for a bit and cool off the pair of us?
 
Robspur12 said:
Thing is @Nigeyman was always a very positive poster and a joy to read. These unduly negative, glass half empty posts feel so uncharacteristic. Perhaps he is going through the same "small infant" induced sleep deprivation as Christian Eriksen. Would explain the drop in form.
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I am tired mate. thanks for your comments about my past self...perhaps another long vacation from this thread to get back to being chirpy, and again thanks for answering my questions before.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
You're doing your best to write well thought out reasoned essays to try and change the view of someone that has basically lost the faith.

The bottom line is @Nigeyman wants to roll the dice. No matter what you or anyone else says....Nigey wants to roll the dice.

Its akin to the supporters who have moaned about Levy being to tight in the transfer market the last 3-4 years, the thinking just dismisses so much, explanation doesn't work. Probably because it's driven by emotion, which in itself is ok, emotions are good and besides we are not all the same.

The problem is, it belies the progress of the club, and for them personally, it robs them of the enjoyment of the period we are going thru. Perhaps our problem is our advancement is too slow for modern times, no-one has a plan that takes 10 years these days?, that patience horizon is just not in the make-up of many people.

We are blessed to have two men who absolutely excel at their jobs and get along.

And what this creates, and its a rare thing at not just our club but any club, is everyone the chairman, the manager, the players and all the staff are pulling in the same direction, thats a lovely thing to be part of, and as supporters, proud of.
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yep mate a lot of dancing round the maypole to get back to my long post after UCL final where I said.

lost faith in Manager, not the club

roll dice, poch 4, could we get a six...

would have been nice for you to answer my question mate as I didn't fully understand 'money makes mistakes irrelevant' but its not a biggie.
 
Raziel said:
Lots of stuff in there, and in most of your posts .. honestly mate, if I read you correctly, you have lost your faith (and all the conversations in the world may not change that, and be careful personally with that)

Let me try to add a little more detail

When I talk about trophies (or lack of) in regards to our history and/or other teams, it is to ground us on the fact that "it isn't we are doing something wrong and as soon as we correct that (or buy x player) we will suddenly revert to some winning Spurs team that bags trophies", we need to break new ground, to become a big/elite club (not just one with elite potential). Money may not score goals, but better players do, and better players cost money (bit of irony that Ajax best CL run in years ended against a similar level team with a slightly more expensive squad)

To the point of the past 5 years, could/should we have converted one of the SF/Final/PL runs into a trophy? in isolation, yes, no question. What does that come down to? manager/player inexperience, failure to invest at right moments, opposition simply better, luck, brick refs? To me .. life just is never as simple as one thing, its some combination or all of the above.

To your broader question of the future, i.e. when do we win, when do we peep out. Spur's fans need to understand a very uncomfortable fact, in my opinion (solely mine) Daniel Levy realized a long time ago that in the short term, Spurs simply cannot compete (a fact that West Ham, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Southampton, Everton are still failing to grasp) for top honors. What does this mean?

- It means it was not the time to risk/spend when the gap was not close enough
- It means settling for "good enough" results as long as it kept the club progressing to the long term
- It may mean giving up short term opportunities at glory for the future of the club and the opportunity to be that elite club.

Tottenham has a plan, and the plan is most likely on track (and this is the big difference when people try to compare us to the Scum "settling for 4th", the Scum were regressing from contenders to desperation to keep a revenue stream)

- The 4 years before Levy Spurs finished between 14th - 10th
- Within 5 years, we were "best of the rest" and competing for European competition for the first time in decades
- Another 5 years had us in CL first time
- Today we are CL regulars (4 in a row) with a CL final run
- In that same time, the facilities (training & stadium), the squad, the fanbase (over 200 official global supporters clubs now), the profile and revenue of the club has increased remarkably (statistically I think only United have improved their financials at same or better rate)
- Clearly a plan with NFL, naming rights, Rugby and other non-football related events to drive even more revenue.

Will Daniel Levy spend a 100M+ and back Poch this summer to push on? I really don't know, he may still feel we have a revenue gap to continue to close.
Is Poch the man if he was to do so (guess what this thread is about)? I don't see the risk/reward payoff in changing him right now
Will Spurs be a bigger club with likely the results that come with that in 5 - 10 years? = absolutely, we are better placed than any other club in the world to improve our position.

So my suggestion to you is, understand the game is rigged (the rich stay rich, the poor get poorer) but we are very well managed and doing our best to become something more (no longer speculation, the stadium, revenue, results show that Levy got it right). Does that mean we may be frustrated a few more times, a few more years where we are almost there? where we get annoyed about the squad depth, that one more player that could have made the difference? Maybe, maybe the successful Spurs will not be the one of Kane, Eriksen, Dele but another one (just as the CL regulars wasn't Berbs, Keane, Modric, Bale)
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Raziel thanks for this and your excellent post before. Its that good that I want a bit of time to stew on it.

Its so well thought out and I appreciated that, I feel a little cheated now because I would have liked you to answer my questions as well but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

also one of your previous posts you said 'so now we love poch religiously because we don't agree with your views' I'm assuming this was aimed at me? that was Danish furniture lovers statement (the git) though I do agree with it. I can only hope you, now don't think I have such a disregard for others opinions, or the will to change them aligned to my own.

I am usually quite happy and positive mate (really) but I am concerned about our form since Christmas carrying on into next season, and with all those big missed opportunities I mentioned under his tenure I have a genuine fear that our core of excellent players may need to hear a different voice in their ears, when another big opportunity comes around. and for me regardless of the variables mentioned, there has been to many flat displays in those massive, massive games spanning his 5 years.

been going around in many circles, again going back to my original post where I thought I was measured and explained the difference of loving the manager and not the club and that the two were separate perhaps this wish was fanciful judging by the range of conversations I've had on here.

best thing for me is to try and live with my empty feelings and gut feelings regarding poch and not continue to regurgitate them on here because as Robspur says it is glass half empty talk and just likely to boil more tinkle!, I got everything I wanted out in my two long posts pre and post Ajax game. so yeah a break from this thread for a long time best for everyone all round I think.
 
Nigeyman said:
yep mate a lot of dancing round the maypole to get back to my long post after UCL final where I said.

lost faith in Manager, not the club

roll dice, poch 4, could we get a six...

would have been nice for you to answer my question mate as I didn't fully understand 'money makes mistakes irrelevant' but its not a biggie.
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When -as Chelsea have routinely shown - the wrong appointment is made, or the oligarch goes off the reservation, or their DoF fights like a brave and hacks the manager's balls off, or players openly tell the manager to fudge off and the club backs the players over the manager, IF you can then afford to throw 100 million around in a JANUARY transfer window, it tends to make such mistakes irrelevant in the immediate picture. Chelsea were horribly dysfunctional last season, a club consistently bitching within itself, yet they turned around in January, got Higuain in on a short loan and got Pusilic in, to add to Kepa and Jorginho that summer, and managed to get through it due to their sheer squad numbers. They have regularly had the likes of Willian, Drinkwater, Cahill, Zappacosta, Kovacic, Barkley and others on the bench (most on starting salaries of what, 120k+ a week?)...that is oligarch money papering over administrative cracks and embarrassments which make Chelsea seem like a lavish US soap opera.

Again, if your opinion is that this form of "continuity" is preferable to ours because it produces trophies, then I can only once again say I heartily disagree mate.
 
Mikey10 said:
Indeed, Steff! Micky Hazard was bullish on The Last Word on Spurs podcast a couple of days ago. Said that there is no way Poch is leaving, that Ossie sees him every week and that he has said he’s happy and positive.
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Yup. You know my thoughts on his "will he won't he" have always been "he is going nowhere"...I think the silence is great because it suggests to me we are going to get some business done fast.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
As long as you're not tired of life mate?
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Course not. Just a little tired of having to defend my motives against some accusations when I was just expressing my own thoughts and thought that I had expressed them in a measured way.

Can’t remember the guy on here (who it was, is) who didn’t like Redknapp, but was balanced in his views...he praised Redknapp after wonderful result. I’ll do the same.

I really am good mate, I get people love Poch, and some would be hurt by my views, I just don’t think being to open and honest pays off on here anymore.

Just a little disappointing not one person addressed my points and questions without me prompting it. Before making all sorts of aspersions as to my character and honesty as it were.

But look people are entitled to challenge me of course, but I think I’ve said all I need to and just going round in circles and words, things said getting twisted.

Have a good summer mate.
 
Nigeyman said:
Course not. Just a little tired of having to defend my motives against some accusations when I was just expressing my own thoughts and thought that I had expressed them in a measured way.

Can’t remember the guy on here (who it was, is) who didn’t like Redknapp, but was balanced in his views...he praised Redknapp after wonderful result. I’ll do the same.

I really am good mate, I get people love Poch, and some would be hurt by my views, I just don’t think being to open and honest pays off on here anymore.

Just a little disappointing not one person addressed my points and questions without me prompting it. Before making all sorts of aspersions as to my character and honesty as it were.

But look people are entitled to challenge me of course, but I think I’ve said all I need to and just going round in circles and words, things said getting twisted.

Have a good summer mate.
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Sincerely, I was just checking. Didn't want to think you had other stuff going on and then were getting pounded on here.

Have a good weekend.
 
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