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Mauricio Pochettino

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by DubaiSpur, 27 May 2014.

  1. lurker of old

    lurker of old Luke Young

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    People should trust that Poch knows exactly what he wants to do
    Managers who are failing never go for the simple solution, ie a back 4 screened by Dier or Skipp.
    The team is so much less than the sum of its parts right now, and that is totally down to the manager.
     
    Raziel and Mosquito_Coasting like this.
  2. NYSpur

    NYSpur Matthew Etherington

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    Looking back, I believe the last game that we were looking like the exciting attacking Poch team was away at Everton in December. That day the team was :

    • 1 Lloris
    • 2 Trippier
    • 6 Sanchez
    • 4 Alderweireld
    • 33 Davies
    • 8 Winks
    • 17 Sissoko
    • 23 Eriksen
    • 20 Alli
    • 7 Son
    • 10 Kane
    • Substitutes
      • 3 Rose
      • 11 Lamela (s 46')
      • 16 Walker-Peters
      • 21 Foyth
      • 22 Gazzaniga
      • 27 Lucas Moura (s 83')
      • 52 Skipp (s 79')
    So, with the exception of Trippier, all the players are still at the club. Looking at United today, I think that part of the problem is how Poch is approaching our dramatic loss of form. Where they were positive, we were negative.
     
  3. Hashegotthesackyet?

    Hashegotthesackyet? Scott Parker

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    Any team news yet?
     
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  4. spurspinter1

    spurspinter1 Ruel Fox

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    No but I've got a sauce at the club that has been reliably informed that Poch is under the impression that the next game will be tough, it might come up in the pre-game press conference, only time will tell. Pinch of salt, don't shoot the messenger etc etc.
     
    metalgear likes this.
  5. BrainOfLevy

    BrainOfLevy Vedran Corluka

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    And yet, we tried this exact thing at Brighton and it was one of the worst performances for years. It suggests to me there is something bigger going on than the Manager not doing the obvious things, because the rot is structural and is a build up of lots of things.

    The Everton game mentioned above was also a pretty simple, bog standard 4-2-3-1. It isn’t the formation that is the issue. Players are not winning their individual battles. They are not anticipating well. They are not confident and they are scarcely taking risks. Poch can do what he can do, but bigger change needs to happen.
     
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  6. parklane1

    parklane1 Chris Jones

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    Simple as that really, there is a lot of hot air by some fans moaning about formations but that is missing the real reason.
     
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  7. Jon

    Jon Alf Ramsey

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    Just booted up a game of Football Manager 2019 this afternoon.

    First task was selling the following;
    Gazzaniga, Aurier, Rose, Jan, Toby, Dier, Wanyama, Sissoko, Eriksen and Lamela. :D

    Quite a bit of disruption, but it needed doing!

    ...going to be a big season for Skippy, Jack Roles, Carter-Vickers, and Oakley-Booth, to name just a few!!! :D:D:D

    come on Poch, follow suit!
     
    Danishfurniturelover likes this.
  8. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Colin Calderwood

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    Mate, I really don’t think it’s an overreaction. If you look at the points total over the last 3 seasons it has got worse each season; 77, 71, doesn’t look like it will be over 70 this season. It’s been crap since February. We’ve only beaten mid table teams or teams who got relegated, our home form is lukewarm but our away form is even worse. Personally I’d say the two games that were turning points for us this year we Wolves at home and Burnley away. Two games when neutrals started to talk us up as title challengers but fell completely flat on our faces in both games as we always do whenever we have the chance to put pressure on the league leaders, not to mention Poch’s Gallas style meltdown at Turf Moor. That game felt like he knew the title was gone.

    We keep thinking each defeat is as bad as it gets but it keep getting worse; losing to Colchester, getting pumped by Bayern, losing 3-0 to Brighton and now scraping a draw against the worst team in the league.

    If I could give him any advice it would be to pick the players who are playing well; Lamela and Ndombele, keep it simple, play the formation that suits the players best and which they feel most comfortable with.

    I say all of this as someone still behind Poch. At the same time I am baffled when people say this is a blip as we’ve been crap since February. 19 defeats out of 42 games.
     
    metalgear likes this.
  9. DeanoAustin

    DeanoAustin Sergei Rebrov

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    You're right formation isn't the issue really. That's just moving deckchairs around the Titanic. However it's a popular debate amongst fans because the alternative formation we choose can never really be tested. It's not personnel. Players become better in people's heads after a spell out. Dier was championed on here before Brighton, played and was awful. It's also not players throwing in the towel and not giving a fudge... certainly not in the way being inferred by several posters on here.

    It's simply a case that the players have lost confidence in Poch. The lack of loyalty to the club, the digging the players out in public, the book, the lemons and aura flimflam, the acting like a spoilt teenager, the inane utterances, the lack of a proper Plan B. You cant believe in or follow a man who carries on like that and it's being reflected on the pitch.

    He's a decent man, he's done a great job here and he'll go to another club and do well for a period. But he's done here.
     
    the goat likes this.
  10. AjaxDeSuperYids

    AjaxDeSuperYids Sebastien Bassong

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    Clearly you are right and there is more going on beyond the formation - he’s lost the dressing room and either half the squad needs to go or the manager has to go. If its true that players like dele and kane have also had enough of Poch then undoubtedly the manager has to be the one that walks.

    But systems cannot be dismissed as a mere side note to whats causing the issues on the pitch.

    At brighton he played a ridiculous 4141 formation and stuck ndombele as one of the four, just like he did to sissoko in that formation when he first signed for us. It meant we had no one who could under pressure get the ball off the centre backs or full backs and then get it into the attacking midfielders.

    Systems are important and the fact that poch is also getting that wrong atm is very very damning.
     
  11. BrainOfLevy

    BrainOfLevy Vedran Corluka

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    Ok, I mean we have absolutely nothing to suggest that the lemons and the aura stuff is the reason for anything, unless you are genuinely party to something behind the scenes which I’m not, in which case I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong.

    The loyalty to the club is in turning down Madrid while the same players look for an exit route every single window. Did they lose confidence in him before the CL final or straight after? They are in it for themselves more than Poch is.

    Poch is sticking with players he would clearly like to personally bomb out and is not digging them in public at all. There are a few getting way more playing time then they deserve and soon they will be put out of their misery.

    I don’t deny that some players may feel like they aren’t motivated by it anymore. And if the core that we expect to be here long term; Dele, Kane, Son, Winks, Sanchez - if those guys have truly ‘lost confidence’, then I’d say there’s nothing Poch can do to save himself. But if it’s simply that the players have lost confidence after a collective hammering and a tough window where certain ones didn’t get the moves that they expected, then Poch can still easily recover this because he has enough credit. I’d expect Levy to have asked Kane for example what he feels the problem is, and I don’t think Kane is throwing Poch under the bus.

    I’d say the problem is not that the group as a whole has lost confidence, more than there are now 2 groups. Those that want to stay and still believe, and those who aren’t at the level they need to be and have been angling for moves. I remember watching a game in Poch’s first season where Jan was furious at Kaboul right on the pitch for being out of position, absolutely furious. And I thought it was interesting seeing Kane shake his head after his good ball went out to Aurier who let it go out of play. I wouldn’t be surprised if the players that still believe are getting fudged off with the ones that aren’t pulling their weight. As such we aren’t as tight knit, we aren’t on one page, we aren’t pulling each other through the tough times and recovering quickly.

    Kane’s pointed comments a few weeks back suggest to me something along these lines - that players out for themselves need to help the team succeed still because it will make them look better. This makes much more sense to me than the whole squad having lost confidence, because frankly I think if that was the case Poch would already be out. And given what he did with Espanyol, he may have resigned already.
     
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  12. Yermiyahu

    Yermiyahu Sebastien Bassong

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    Everybody knows this is nowhere.
    One of my main concerns with Poch is his record in the transfer market. It has been less than stellar so far. I'm wondering if he is the guy to spend money in January. Buys like Aurier, Jannsen and even Sanchez have hardly been a roaring success. Thoughts?
     
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  13. Raziel

    Raziel John Lacy

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    But isn't that the problem?

    - Why would we accept that 1 player or 3 or 5 are not motivated anymore?
    - Harry Redknapp managed to get Modric's best season out of him when Levy made him stay an extra year
    - I genuinely don't believe Jan, Eriksen, Toby, Rose are characters that don't put in a shift game in, game out.

    I'm sorry, this should be a simple conversation, play your ass off, continue to show why someone will want to buy you and come January or Summer you get your dream move, big paycheck, whatever the fudge it is.

    But what it seems is Poch (who himself was indecisive at CL) is upset that people are committed to his cause and that is potentially what is the issue, not that the players want to leave, but perhaps he can't accept it.

    It comes back to Poch looking very much like a one trick pony, everyone needs to be a believer and run themselves into the ground vs. allowing very good players to at least play at a par level.
     
  14. DeanoAustin

    DeanoAustin Sergei Rebrov

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    Sending mixed messages about whether or not he'd be here. Saying this isn't the best squad he's had. Talking about different agendas in the squad. Digging out Dier in his book. Inferring Sissoko was a Levy signing in his book and distancing himself from the contract extension. Talking brick about the club.

    If I'm being led by someone I want to know they're gonna be there when times get tough. Pochs not done that with all of the above.

    And during their darkest hour, after losing the CL final, you need your manager to set the example. To rally the troops. To tell them it's a setback but we'll be back. What did our man apparently do. Abandoned ship because he was so disappointed and fudged off to Barcelona on his own.

    That's not a leader. Thats a spoilt brat who lets his own emotions dictate his decisions. He's a charlatan and what we are seeing now is the culmination of all his childish antics and utterances combined with his limited tactical acumen. This will only end one way. The sooner the better.
     
  15. Raziel

    Raziel John Lacy

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    Mate, most people here don't get leadership at a big business level (and Spurs is big business)

    - I hear about the players, I hear about injuries, about the stadium last year, about unsettled squads, not enough transfers windows ..

    Truth is, none of that matters, as the manager of a club (leader) on pitch success or failure is your responsibility and not owning that is such a red flag ..
     
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  16. Raziel

    Raziel John Lacy

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    This is part of the experience at this level issue

    - Some people in/around club have indicated Poch was put off by some of his less than stellar results with his buys, and that was part of the reason he didn't take certain players Levy offered in the period we didn't buy anyone.

    Peter principle applies here -> the principle that members of a hierarchy are promoted until they reach the level at which they are no longer competent.

    - Because Poch was good managing 22 year olds does not somehow automatically translate into managing experienced players in their prime
    - Because he took a top 6 side and made them top 4 does not mean he will ever win anything
    - Because he bought a few good cheaper players doesn't mean he will be good at identifying >$50M players

    At best people are advocating to let him learn on the job at a point in his career where everything is being questioned .. very few people are capable of that sort of course correct.
     
  17. Danishfurniturelover

    Danishfurniturelover Jack Jull

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    Up your arse
    Get Georgiou in at left back.
     
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  18. metalgear

    metalgear Paul Robinson

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    Always been a committee so yes and no.
    Tough one but maybe he doesn't know how to negotiate or base it on auras a bit too much
    Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
     
  19. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Barry Daines Staff Member

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    I'm sorry, what a laughable assumption. How could you possibly know that? What 'big business' are you speaking of? Do you think operating a company such as, say, Chevron, the same as running a Premiership football club? Please.

    We can get into that discussion later on, what I'd like to know is where are you seeing that he isn't "owning" the situation? I don't see him wearing a t-shirt saying "blame me it is my fault" but I also don't see him throwing under the bus the massive under-performers and dissenters which to my eyes remain a clear and obvious issue.

    I am personally baffled that he continues to play Alderweireld, and wonder what Davies needs to do for a chance at LB. I'd even play Dier at RB over Aurier right now, so I would agree that Poch is making some decisions which baffle me.

    When I look at the side which started yesterday, I see Rose/Alderweireld/Verts/Aurier all elsewhere come June, with Eriksen obviously isn the same place.
    I see Lo Celso, Ndombele and Sessegnon isn as potential starters; two have been injured mot of the season, and one is acclimatizing to the pace.
    If we were to get, say, Fernandez and Atal, we would already moving some way towards rejuvenation which could well see Kane, Son and Dele find their levels again due to speed and technical skill of creative play improving.

    We clearly disagree on what we feel needs to happen in the net 8 months.
    I think we need to ride the storm, be brave, hope we can hang in within range of the top 4 and make a New Year burst after some busy work in January. If not that, the summer.
    I hope Poch gets the chance to continue the rebuild. He has, IMO, been let down by several "senior players" this season, and they need to be moved on.

    That being said, I agree with those who say his own language/demeanour needs to improve. He needs to find a bullish public spirit and projection. He needs to really step up and "act" the leader, project. I think he is still somewhat baffled and learning his way through the moment, I back him to get there. But I do agree, he has to read some the obvious signs, such as Aurier simply not being good enough...
     
  20. Gazza Dazzla

    Gazza Dazzla Simon Davies

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    I’m sorry but that paragraph is far too harsh for me.
     

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