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Mauricio Pochettino

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by DubaiSpur, 27 May 2014.

  1. billyiddo

    billyiddo Jimmy Cantrell Staff Member

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    Its what you'd you expect from any manager who viewed his role as long term - someone looking for a way out would throw his players under the bus (ie Mourinho)
     
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  2. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Barry Daines Staff Member

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    In fairness -even though I disagree with you- I can at least accept that this is your opinion. I think at this point we simply wait and see. I feel certain you will agree that it is in our collective main interest that your opinion/theory is disproven. If it turns out to be accurate, I will not be afraid to acknowledge that.
     
  3. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Dean Richards

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    Surely the whole point of any debate is to discuss things with people who have a different point of view to you? Otherwise there is no debate.

    Yes we can be smart with our transfers. So can all clubs. Every club will have examples of players they have overpaid for and players they have got for bargain fees. What is churlish is an expectation that Spurs can continue to improve relative to other clubs who are putting more resources into improving their squads (both in terms of transfer fee and wages). Typically the best players are paid the biggest money. We can try to sign the undiscovered gems but there will always be more of an element of chance with those.

    Do we have the third best squad in the league? Perhaps we do yes, on paper at least, but now look at that squad in more detail and you realise that in reality it's not quite as good as it is on paper:

    Lloris. Seems to have been on a decline for a couple of years now. Directly responsible for us conceding quite a number of goals these days and is now long term injured.
    Gazzaniga. Probably an OK number 2 but now our number 1, must be the weakest number 1 in the top 6 at least?
    Vorm: Nobody was unhappy that he left us in the Summer. I see the sense in having bought him back though
    Aurier: Most people seem to regard him as a joke. Probably the most capable of our right backs but his character/concentration/decision making seems to be flawed. I think every other member of the big 6 and indeed a fair few clubs below that have a better right back. A player who wants out and the manager doesn't want at the club.
    KWP: A reasonable young(ish) back-up. Nothing special.
    Foyth: A young centre half who hasn't yet shown much at Spurs other than a whole of lot rashness. Seeminly being groomed as a right back. Completely unproven still I think. Could end up a good'un but too early to say based on Spurs performances.
    Alderweireld. A once superb centre half who wants to leave the club on a free transfer and has either regressed significantly physically or is looking so poor because he is going through the motions while waiting to leave.
    Sanchez. A young centre half with some promise, but rather erratic. One of the weaker footballing players in our squad. Don't expect him to play much of a part in our passing game.
    Vertonghen. Still a class act but getting older. Could probably do with being paired with a younger player like Sanchez to do more of the running. Still a great player IMO.
    Tananga. A promising youngster. We should get him out on loan before he ends up with 2 years with a few minutes here and there and stagnates like KWP has.
    Rose. Clearly a shadow of the player he was a few years ago. Another who wants out, although he at least looks like he is trying.
    Davies. A decent left back. Probably just about good enough as first choice for a top 6 team but a long way behind the top 2.
    Dier. A reasonable defensive midfield player a few years ago but looking broken now. Hopefully not permanently broken.
    Wanyama. An excellent defensive midfield player a few years ago looking very broken now. Probably permanently broken. Poch was happy to let him go in the summer but it didn't happen. Probably isn't putting his all into playing for us.
    Winks. A decent young(ish) midfield player. Suffering a bit from having to play the defensive role. Probably good enough to be a starting midfield player in a top 6 team.
    Sissoko. Has been a trooper for us but should be no more than a squad player at a top 4 team. How many games he has had to play for us shows that our squad is perhaps not as good as you might think?
    Lamela. A decent squad player for a top 4 team. Not sure he is good enough to be first choice if we want to be challenging at the top end
    Eriksen. A fantastic player, but one who wants out. The club tried to sell him in the summer but it seems he wants to go on a free. His heart probably isn't in it and he could well be ensuring he avoids injury prior to signing his big money deal in Spain/Italy. A great player on paper only right now.
    Ali. Has had injury problems and now seems to have some confidence problems. Undoubtedly full of ability but not playing great football at the moment.
    N'Dombele. Looks like he could be the real deal but still settling in to his place in our team. Does some excellent stuff going forward and some less good stuff defensively. I'll think he'll turn out brilliant but it might be next season before we really see it consistently
    Lo Celso. bought in much later than he should've been in the transfer window and then got injured. Hopefully is a really good player but we cannot judge him yet as he has been unavailable.
    Sessegnon. Injured when we signed him. Still injured now. Can't really judge him at all yet.
    Skipp. A promising young player who looks OK when he plays despite his age. Isn't yet good enough if we want to be challenging at the top end of the league. We should get him out on loan before he ends up with 2 years getting a few minutes here and there and stagnates like KWP has.
    Moura. A decent player who should be good enough for a starting place with us but doesn't seem to have the managers backing?
    Son. An excellent player who would get into most teams in the PL. Can blow a bit hot and cold but every other club in the league would love to have him.
    Kane. One of the best centre forwards in the business. Doesn't look like he is on top form at the moment however. Happy for him to play his way back into form (and we have no choice but to do so).
    Parrot. Nowhere near ready for first team football at a club who want to be at the top level. I think being in and around the squad will be good for him this year and I hope he gets a loan next year to go and play proper mens football (hopefully at Championship level).


    When you look at it like that it's not quite so pretty. A bunch of injured players, a few more player who look like they might be permanently broken, some youngsters who need more experience (hopefully elsewhere rather than learning in our team and impacting results). Several players who want out and won't be giving everything for the cause as a result, some decent players who should be now more than bench options for a top 4 team and a sprinkling of genuinely excellent players.... some of which are clearly off form. Not only that but HUGE holes in terms of quality/fitness at right back and defensive midfield.

    IMO we need two of our three new signings to get themselves fit and integrated and new signings in Jan at right back and defensive midfield at a minimum before we can be considered to be expecting to finish 3rd in the league. Hopefully we don't drift too far away before then!
     
  4. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Dean Richards

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    So take out those injured/broken, those that want out and those that really need to be getting more experience elsewhere before playing for a top level team and we're left with just the following:

    Gazzaniga
    Vorm
    Sanchez
    Vertonghen
    Davies
    Winks
    Sissoko
    Lamela
    Ali
    N'Dombele
    Moura
    Son
    Kane

    From the above I think it's clear that we need reinforcements (both from players returning from injury and the transfer market).
     
  5. galeforce

    galeforce Teddy Sheringham

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    that team would beat any other in Europe imo





    there are 13 of them for a start
     
  6. nayenezgani

    nayenezgani Chris Armstrong

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  7. Jurgen the German

    Jurgen the German Colin Calderwood

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    Excellent analysis. I don’t think anyone would disagree that we have some pretty large holes to fill right now and will have more in the next 12 months when certain players leave.

    Then again, every squad in the league bar Emirates Marketing Project have holes to fill and players that need to be moved on. Liverpool almost won the double last season and their central midfield is not creative for such a top team. Arsenal still have not solved their frailties at CB and don’t have a decent DM, unless you count Xhaka. United have no out and out, proven centre forward and also have lots on relatively inexperienced young players, not to mention a manager who is unproven in England. Chelsea also have a manager still very inexperienced and lots of young players.

    So in a nutshell, all of teams bar Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project have some pretty big flaws and weaknesses. I absolutely agree we have some major surgery to carry out but I agree with @harr1984, we have the 4th worst squad in the league at worst. That might say more about the decline of the rest of the big 6 than it does about us but the bottom line is we should be in the top 4 by the end of the season.
     
    harr1984 likes this.
  8. Mikey10

    Mikey10 Terry Fenwick

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  9. metalgear

    metalgear Paul Robinson

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  10. NickTB

    NickTB Neil Sullivan

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    Were these taken just before he went into his office, had a lemonade, put his feet up and switched on the CCTV?
     
  11. harr1984

    harr1984 Pat van den Hauwe

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    Sorry but every club has the same issues, thats the whole point of the MANAGER. You know, to manage the squad? Yes we have had injury issues, yes we've had contract issues - guess what, so does everyone else. And some of those issues are of Pochs' own doing. Fans of every club could list all of their squad and do the same. I never said we dont have our problems. but if you think this squad with whatever issues is 'over achieving' by finishing top 4 we are never going to agree. And if Mourinho came in and got us top 4 with this set of players I bet you there wont be anyone on here going 'Wow, we've overachieved'. Poch has credit in the bank, but with the players we have at our disposal getting top 4 is not over achieving....
     
  12. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Nayim

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    Only time will tell.

    And it shouldnt need to be said, but I gain nothing from being right in this instance, do I? (If it turns out to be the case).

    Im certainly wouldnt be looking for my "won the internet" trophy if it comes to pass.

    All I am saying is what I see - what I believe to be the truth, that is all.

    Certainly wouldnt make me happy to be proven correct on this one.
     
    StephenH likes this.
  13. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Nayim

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    Tottenham boss Mauricio Pochettino is convinced his squad are still behind him because he has been invited to a team dinner by one of his players.

    Pochettino's position is under scrutiny after a run of three wins from 11 games in all competitions so far this season.

    However, the Argentine says his invitation to dinner via text message proves the team are still united.

    "They are not about to say goodbye to me. To say goodbye, say goodbye here - not inviting me to dinner," he said.

    Speaking at a news conference before Saturday's Premier League match at home to Watford, Pochettino said: "When you receive a text from the player inviting you and the coaching staff for a dinner only two things can happen.

    "[It's] because they want to say goodbye. Or because they feel that they love you and they want to show that they are with you. And I think it's the second."

    Spurs lost 3-0 at Brighton in their last Premier League match before the international break, just four days after a 7-2 thrashing by Bayern Munich in the Champions League.

    The north London club were also beaten on penalties by League Two Colchester in the Carabao Cup earlier this month.

    That poor run of results led to speculation Pochettino could use the January transfer window to try and turn things around.

    Pochettino has dismissed that suggestion, however, and says January would be too late to try instigate a change in form anyway.

    "I never was keen on January and I will not change now because it is a tough period or tough few games, I'm not going to change the way I think or see things," he added.

    "We are not going to force anything because we believe the squad is a decent squad. Now we need to be strong our decision was right, because we are suffering a storm now we cannot now change quick.

    "Now it's the time to be responsible. First me and then the players, everyone.

    "My opinion, the way I love to work, is that when you take decisions in the summer and then you need to be responsible and then you need to find the way to make that work.

    "Now is not a point to talk about January, refreshing the team. Now is about trying to find solutions because we need to win tomorrow and we need to win after tomorrow.

    "We need solutions now. We cannot think, 'OK, we forget now and in January we are going to fix the problem'. It's not like this."
     
  14. Grays_1890

    Grays_1890 Jermaine Jenas

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    Far too many people involved and moving parts for that to be true anymore
     
  15. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Dean Richards

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    Arsenal have that Guendouzi fella and the Uraguayan as well as Xhaka. While none are exactly Makalele they are all currently better than broken Dier and very broken Wanyama in that all of them can actually run and make a tackle. I think Liverpool got reasonably lucky with injuries last season, that luck may or may not continue into this season. Unfortunately we haven't been as lucky with injuries and that coupled with a bunch of players not wanting to be here has actually given us a rather small squad to work with with a couple of glaring holes in it.
     
    Last edited: 18 Oct 2019
  16. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Dean Richards

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    IF he got us 4th..... He got Man Utd 6th in his first season there. Having taken over a team that finished 5th the previous season. He also got to have the biggest wage bill in the league and spend £150 million net.

    If you think any manager consistently getting a team with the 6th biggest wage bill and 10th biggest transfer budget into the top 4 isn't overachieving then you're right.... we're never going to agree. I have asked several times for somebody to point out a manager in any of the top European leagues who has managed to do this. I suspect an example doesn't exist but am happy to be proved wrong (and happy for us to bring that man in if so).

    If Mourinho came in and got us 4 top 4 finishes on the spin with the 6th biggest budget and GHod knows how low transfer budget he would absolutely be overachieving.
     
  17. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Dean Richards

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    You wouldn't admit when you'd been proven wrong anyway! ;)
     
  18. harr1984

    harr1984 Pat van den Hauwe

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    You're missing the point. As I said previously, he did have us overachieving - we never used to have a squad worthy of top 4. For the past couple of seasons we have. We are no longer over achieving, and you are back to going on about the wage bill again - something which is more reflective of the way Levy runs the club. Our top players could be earning wayyyy more elsewhere, its not reflective of their ability. This is just going round in circles, which is why its pointless debating as I already said....
     
  19. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Dean Richards

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    Especially with two keepers! Shall we have Vorm or Gazzaniga as rush goalie ;)
     
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  20. Raziel

    Raziel John Lacy

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    Mate, you and I usually aren't too far off in opinions, but I disagree here

    - Poch was a great manager, and specifically he was a great manager in a club that had ambition to be top 4 and compete for titles.
    - He was a great manager in taking a very young squad, making them fit, giving them a system, improving primarily the FBs and incorporating Dele.
    - Average age of that squad was ~22 or so.

    Poch has not shown himself to be a great manager when
    - The requirement is to be top 4 and win things
    - The squad is established professionals at the prime of their career
    - Getting truly exceptional players to push on (Dele, Eriksen, Lamela)
    - Average age of the squad is ~27 or so?

    I am completely, completely confused by the absolute acceptance that "the players are jaded/tired/unmotivated due to time, Poch (his job) is unable to motivate them anymore, so lets replace/rebuild"

    This squad does NOT need a rebuild, and honestly if Poch believes that, he should fudging go ..

    For next season as example
    GK situation -> fine as long as Hugo recovers
    CB's -> Jan +1 of Foyth/Sanchez/Tangaga/Dier, Toby out, potentially a new CB here (1 player)
    FBs -> RB required, Davies +1 at LB, Rose out (1 player)
    CM -> Sessegnon, Lamela, Winks, Lo Celso, Dele, N'dombele, Lucas, Sissoko, Eriksen out, either a DM or another creative depending on style (1 player)
    Strikers -> Kane, Son, Troy, no one out, nothing needed

    At most 3 players, maybe 4 if you want to add another attacking/defensive player
    - Fernandes and Dybala already identified and prices apparently were agreed
    - So as little as 2 players to find/buy

    Poch has no rights .. I don't have a right to have a brick year because I've given my company 17 exceptional years, it just doesn't work that way.

    Again, is he really an exceptional manager or was he an exceptional manager for that moment, for that squad, for this club at that particular stage of the journey?

    The argument most people have re drop players, formation, whatever is "what is he doing to change the form?" (19 losses in 41 games), seems to me to be the same, same lineups (with occasional nonsense adjustment of 1 player), same fudging diamond, same asking FBS that are not good enough to somehow be Rose/Walker of 3 seasons ago. If he is playing Eriksen because we are more worried about his sale value (with less than 12 months on contract) than results, again he should fudging go …


    Levy is the success of Spurs, not Poch, Poch is just another step in a long line of progress from the early missteps -> BMJ -> Harry -> Poch and at every step I've heard when tis manager leaves it's going to be a disaster and we will lose all the progress .. really? 18+ years now of almost constant upward trajectory in results, league placement, income, player quality, almost any measure of success on or of field with exception of that very last step (trophies)

    As I said mate, respect your opinion but really, the keep Poch argument seems to down to

    - He will turn it around because he was good 2 years ago
    - He's been a great manager for us (effectively the same point as above)

    The reality

    - Club is on a miserable run of form for 10 months
    - We still have something to salvage this season (PL, CL and FA Cup)
    - We can't refresh squad until January, at which stage the above point will no longer likely be relevant
    - This should be an easy season (United, Chelsea & Scum are not at their best)

    History only shows this ending one way, and the logical answer with two of the best managers in world football available is to not wait for the inevitable.

    - What score do we have to lose the CL and Pool matches by to change people's mind?
     
    Last edited: 18 Oct 2019

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