The thing is, the better we get as a club under Poch, then the better our youngsters will have to be to get a chance -- and if they get one, the better they will have to perform to actually stay in Poch's plans. Onomah looked a million miles away from being ready for us whenever he made an appearance. I can't comment on how he's doing at Villa, I haven't seen him play there. But if he's not making an impression there, I can't see Poch making a big effort to accommodate him in our squad. Winks is taking the spot for "work in progress" for our centre midfield. Poch is trying to make us, as a club, aim at league titles and Champions League's, so young players are going to have to impress, especially if they get loaned out.
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Josh Onomah
- Thread starter braineclipse
- Start date
As a longtime Onomah defender, I've been watching him pretty closely this season, watched a handful of Villa games when he's played.
I think it's important to remember:
a) The #1 goal was to get Josh minutes in senior football, and he has. He will likely make 40+ appearances for a team battling for promotion, often from the start.
b) He's playing out of position A LOT. Bruce has used him all over the place, from #10 to right wing to occasionally nearly as a striker in a 4-4-2.
c) He plays in a style that has almost nothing in common with ours. He is a midfield passer/dribbler in a team that is averaging under 50% possession this season. They mostly rely on wide players to either create (Snodgrass, Adomah, Grealish) for their limited, box-hanging strikers (Hogan, Davis) or cut inside and shoot.
d) Most importantly, Aston Villa fans have ZERO investment in him as a young player, so they will obviously be unreasonably harsh on him. He's the automatic spacegoat for just about anything that goes wrong in that team (think: Fraizer Campbell post-Berba). Especially someone who doesn't naturally show as much "pashun" as others.
e) The "success" of a player on loan doesn't always matter. Think about how many uninspiring loans Kane, Mason, and Carroll had as teenagers.
All that said, I think it's been a decent success. Obviously, stats aren't everyone's cup of tea, but this radar shows that he's been pretty productive overall. A central midfielder who puts up solid passing, dribbling, and tackling stats in the Championship as a 20 year-old is a good sign. The dispossession number makes me nervous, but considering he's played way further up the pitch than he would at Spurs, I think it can be forgiven. However, if he ever is going to make it here as a central midfielder (the only possible position he'd make it at here), Poch needs to trust him not to lose the ball in central midfield. That will be crucial.
. <a href="https://t.co/gf12qcF5XQ">pic.twitter.com/gf12qcF5XQ</a></p>— Ted Knutson (@mixedknuts) <a href=" ">
I think there's a spot in our future for Onomah. I think he possesses a pretty rare combination of skills and physical traits, and I think he'd do a really good job if played next to someone like Dier or possibly Dembele against lesser competition. Ultimately, he went to Villa to get high-pressure games, and he's certainly done that. Hopefully, it'll pay off for us in the future.
I think it's important to remember:
a) The #1 goal was to get Josh minutes in senior football, and he has. He will likely make 40+ appearances for a team battling for promotion, often from the start.
b) He's playing out of position A LOT. Bruce has used him all over the place, from #10 to right wing to occasionally nearly as a striker in a 4-4-2.
c) He plays in a style that has almost nothing in common with ours. He is a midfield passer/dribbler in a team that is averaging under 50% possession this season. They mostly rely on wide players to either create (Snodgrass, Adomah, Grealish) for their limited, box-hanging strikers (Hogan, Davis) or cut inside and shoot.
d) Most importantly, Aston Villa fans have ZERO investment in him as a young player, so they will obviously be unreasonably harsh on him. He's the automatic spacegoat for just about anything that goes wrong in that team (think: Fraizer Campbell post-Berba). Especially someone who doesn't naturally show as much "pashun" as others.
e) The "success" of a player on loan doesn't always matter. Think about how many uninspiring loans Kane, Mason, and Carroll had as teenagers.
All that said, I think it's been a decent success. Obviously, stats aren't everyone's cup of tea, but this radar shows that he's been pretty productive overall. A central midfielder who puts up solid passing, dribbling, and tackling stats in the Championship as a 20 year-old is a good sign. The dispossession number makes me nervous, but considering he's played way further up the pitch than he would at Spurs, I think it can be forgiven. However, if he ever is going to make it here as a central midfielder (the only possible position he'd make it at here), Poch needs to trust him not to lose the ball in central midfield. That will be crucial.
. <a href="https://t.co/gf12qcF5XQ">pic.twitter.com/gf12qcF5XQ</a></p>— Ted Knutson (@mixedknuts) <a href=" ">
I think there's a spot in our future for Onomah. I think he possesses a pretty rare combination of skills and physical traits, and I think he'd do a really good job if played next to someone like Dier or possibly Dembele against lesser competition. Ultimately, he went to Villa to get high-pressure games, and he's certainly done that. Hopefully, it'll pay off for us in the future.
I kind disagree re. Dembele -- when he's playing well, he plays with intensity. Gets the ball, uses strength and skill to hold off opponents, drives forward then off-loads the ball. Tracks back, gets his foot in, strong, chops players down when necessary. Not seen anything like that in Onomah's game (I didn't watch the U20 world cup that people say he played well in, I'm talking about senior football).
As a longtime Onomah defender, I've been watching him pretty closely this season, watched a handful of Villa games when he's played.
I think it's important to remember:
a) The #1 goal was to get Josh minutes in senior football, and he has. He will likely make 40+ appearances for a team battling for promotion, often from the start.
b) He's playing out of position A LOT. Bruce has used him all over the place, from #10 to right wing to occasionally nearly as a striker in a 4-4-2.
c) He plays in a style that has almost nothing in common with ours. He is a midfield passer/dribbler in a team that is averaging under 50% possession this season. They mostly rely on wide players to either create (Snodgrass, Adomah, Grealish) for their limited, box-hanging strikers (Hogan, Davis) or cut inside and shoot.
d) Most importantly, Aston Villa fans have ZERO investment in him as a young player, so they will obviously be unreasonably harsh on him. He's the automatic spacegoat for just about anything that goes wrong in that team (think: Fraizer Campbell post-Berba). Especially someone who doesn't naturally show as much "pashun" as others.
e) The "success" of a player on loan doesn't always matter. Think about how many uninspiring loans Kane, Mason, and Carroll had as teenagers.
All that said, I think it's been a decent success. Obviously, stats aren't everyone's cup of tea, but this radar shows that he's been pretty productive overall. A central midfielder who puts up solid passing, dribbling, and tackling stats in the Championship as a 20 year-old is a good sign. The dispossession number makes me nervous, but considering he's played way further up the pitch than he would at Spurs, I think it can be forgiven. However, if he ever is going to make it here as a central midfielder (the only possible position he'd make it at here), Poch needs to trust him not to lose the ball in central midfield. That will be crucial.
. <a href="https://t.co/gf12qcF5XQ">pic.twitter.com/gf12qcF5XQ</a></p>— Ted Knutson (@mixedknuts) <a href=" ">
I think there's a spot in our future for Onomah. I think he possesses a pretty rare combination of skills and physical traits, and I think he'd do a really good job if played next to someone like Dier or possibly Dembele against lesser competition. Ultimately, he went to Villa to get high-pressure games, and he's certainly done that. Hopefully, it'll pay off for us in the future.
Good post -- where do you see Onomah next season?
Hopefully, here. Basically eating the Sissoko minutes and playing alongside Dier, Dembele, Wanyama, and Winks. I'm not sure that's realistic though if Poch doesn't see him as ready. If not, hopefully in a decent Prem team that likes to pass the ball, like Watford or Swansea or something.
Absolutely nothing against Onamah, but the only academy type product that will get into our side now is a Dele/Sessegnon type that is tearing it up at lower level.
I'm not sure Winks/Lamela will see much game time next season without a big step up (Lamela may just take the high energy role in team, a bit like this year)
Year over year, Poch's overall team quality raises and I expect a "marque" type signing for stadium, especially if we get CL again.
- Eriksen, Dele, Dembele, Son, Lucas, Wanyama, Dier are a given
- Lamela likely to stay, Winks maybe?
- Malcom/someone else likely incoming (I'd prefer an Eriksen type as well)
That is over 10 midfielders, really don't see where Onamah fits in the equation
This is sort of how I see it. For example, if/when Sissoko is sold, I don't think Onomah will be considered for those minutes. Whatever we think of Sissoko, Poch has relied on him to play a lot of minutes this season and whoever replaces him will be seen to be a big upgrade and on the level of our other midfielders, who are all excellent in their own way (bar Winks, who you could say is an excellent prospect but not yet an excellent player).
Obviously, don't disagree with all of this and it might be unrealistic to think that Josh could play a role next season, but Winks and Lamela have both been trusted to start and gave massive CL performances this season (Winks at the Bernebau, Lamela at Juve).
I think Winks is the best test case to how this stuff works. Look back at articles from November/December. People were writing that Winks had overtaken Dembele, was almost a guaranteed starter for England, and bossed it at the Bernabeu (he did). Then, he rolled his ankle again before England duty, Dembele has gotten back to form, and now he's not even always getting in our 18. This stuff moves so quickly, and I think if Josh could get a chance in his preferred role with a decent quality team around him, he could do a good job for us and carve out a place in our squad like Winks did.
Though I take your point about the number of midfielders ahead of him, I think he'd really be fifth in line behind Dier, Dembele, Wanyama, and Winks, if Sissoko were to get sold this summer. Considering Winks, Dembele, and Wanyama have all missed significant time in recent seasons, and we are likely to be in four competitions, I think he'd be able to find enough minutes to make an impact.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I’m still not convinced on the ‘lazy’ tag he gets. If it’s true then he clearly doesn’t have a future here but I can’t help but think he was also called that when he was playing for us and I don’t think Poch would have stood for it. It’s a style thing for him and I think he’s unfairly tarnished with it.
That said, the level is clearly higher here now so whether or not he has a future here is still in question. Just not convinced that if he doesn’t, it’s because of laziness.
That said, the level is clearly higher here now so whether or not he has a future here is still in question. Just not convinced that if he doesn’t, it’s because of laziness.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Agree. It's hardly likely that would Poch have given him such strong backing had he been the lazy s.o.a.b that many fans believe him to be. On the other hand something is clearly not right the way things are going for him at Villa.
If VIlla fans are giving him stick it is hardly going to help but it's up to him to turn them round by showing them what he can do.
He has too much talent to be cast aside after just one loan but he needs to make the most of what's left of his opportunities whilst he still has them.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
And at Leicester..Kane got stick while at Norwich as well, so who knows...
I’d just like someone to show faith in him at CM other than international youth team managers. The Villa loan seems to have gone stale in a similar way to CCV at Sheffield Utd, just CCV got a fresh start at Ipswich and has recovered his form again.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Played 85 minutes tonight and villa won. Does anyone know how he played.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Good 2nd half according to comments I have read but not all comments are positive. Here's a comment from Villa Talk - "He's such a frustrating player. When he's on the ball you can see he's talented but my GHod, off the ball he drives you crazy. Just wish he'd put a bit more into it."
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
That's interesting. Diametrically opposite of what they were saying at the beginning of the season.
afsoc4life
Vedran Corluka
Just watched Aston Villa highlights versus Leeds. Villa fans dissing Onomah are clams. Suspect complaints are not for on the pitch reasons. A 20 yr old midfielder in the Championship.
afsoc4life
Vedran Corluka
Villa fans dissing him are not serious. He is 20. This is his first season of serious top level regular football. Watched the highlights. He seemed to play either AM or CM.
afsoc4life
Vedran Corluka
Read the comments. Looks like complaint is that he is blocking development of one of their own. Spurs are the only beneficiaries of his loan move. They seem to forget Villa are at least in the playoffs.