• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Josh Onomah

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
.

Frankly though I dont think he compares to Winks who always participated actively from the first appearance.
Click to expand...

Pretty much where i stand on this, Winks looked like he belonged on the big stage from the first time he came into the first team ( imo). Not sure that Onomah looked that way at all to be honest, but as GB has said he is still a kid and he has time to progress.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Maybe so, but as a first team observer, Winks has done infinitely better than Onomah.

Onomah has had chances, plenty of chances, and not even come close to owning a role on the pitch. Thats why he has gone on loan and Winks has become a first team regular.

And, honestly, I dont give a brick about how well he does in the youth. Its nice as an indicator of potential ability, but its mans football where it counts. Football is littered with stories of players that looked incredible in the age groups but then disappeared once they came of age and couldnt step up.

Im not saying Onomah cant or wont break through, only that so far he just hasnt stepped up.

If he did it would be great, who doesnt like it when players graduate into the first team from the academy?
Click to expand...

Well put. Would definitely be great if he does make it, just not seen anything yet (for whatever reason)
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Maybe so, but as a first team observer, Winks has done infinitely better than Onomah.

Onomah has had chances, plenty of chances, and not even come close to owning a role on the pitch. Thats why he has gone on loan and Winks has become a first team regular.

And, honestly, I dont give a brick about how well he does in the youth. Its nice as an indicator of potential ability, but its mans football where it counts. Football is littered with stories of players that looked incredible in the age groups but then disappeared once they came of age and couldnt step up.

Im not saying Onomah cant or wont break through, only that so far he just hasnt stepped up.

If he did it would be great, who doesnt like it when players graduate into the first team from the academy?
Click to expand...
This just goes back to the arguments on this thread from a couple of months ago between Winks and Onomah. Onomah has never played in CM for us, but Winks has only played in his preferred position of CM. So it’s not a fair comparison IMO.

I think the thread comes down to those who’ve seen Onomah play CM and those who haven’t really, or just don’t rate the level it was played at. If you’ve only ever seen Onomah play AM for Spurs first team then you’d quite rightly be forgiven for thinking he won’t make it. But if you’ve seen him play CM for the Spurs youths, England youth and Villa at the start of this season then you’ve most probably got a VERY different idea about the lad.
 
Last edited:
Gazza Dazzla said:
This just goes back to the arguments on this thread from a couple of months ago between Winks and Onomah. Onomah has never played in CM for us, but Winks has only played in his preferred position of CM. So it’s not a fair comparison IMO.

I think the thread comes down to those who’ve seen Onomah play CM and those who haven’t really, or just don’t rate the level it was played at. If you’ve only ever seen Onomah play AM for Spurs first team then you’d quite rightly be forgiven for thinking he won’t make it. But if you’ve seen him play CM for the Spurs youths, England youth and Villa at the start of this season then you’ve most probably got a VERY different idea about the lad.
Click to expand...

There must be a reason why Poch hasn't played him there though. Winks is getting plenty of minutes there despite his age/experience so one can only assume that Onomah hadnt shown the same quality in training

Top clubs cant afford to just chuck youth players on the pitch in the hope that they do well, the manager needs trust that the player is ready to slot in and perform to the required level.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
This just goes back to the arguments on this thread from a couple of months ago between Winks and Onomah. Onomah has never played in CM for us, but Winks has only played in his preferred position of CM. So it’s not a fair comparison IMO.

I think the thread comes down to those who’ve seen Onomah play CM and those who haven’t really, or just don’t rate the level it was played at. If you’ve only ever seen Onomah play AM for Spurs first team then you’d quite rightly be forgiven for thinking he won’t make it. But if you’ve seen him play CM for the Spurs youths, England youth and Villa at the start of this season then you’ve most probably got a VERY different idea about the lad.
Click to expand...

I think Billys response nails it to be honest.

Onomah is bigger, more physical, has been around the first team squad longer, and Winks is the one who was trusted (and performed) in the position.

I think the only fair conlcusion is that he outperformed Onomah in training etc to earn the right. I dont really buy the idea Onomah is a victim of not being played in his ideal position.

And, to be honest, even in a less than favourable position it was/is still completely evident Onomah has ability. I dont question that. My only real complaint was a complete lack of looking like be thought he belonged there. And not in that "oh but he has a languid running style" way, but in a "he is not taking this chance at all" kind of way. Far too passive, bordering on anonymous, not taking ownership, not trying to make things happen - just running with the ebb and flow and thats it.

Which is, I think, entirely mental. Maybe a year in the Championship will see him return a more mature and sorted player. Someone who will try and put his stamp on things. Just like Winks did from his first appearance. I certainly hope so.

Other than that, all I would say is performing in the youth system really counts for nought when we are talking about the first team.
 
billyiddo said:
There must be a reason why Poch hasn't played him there though. Winks is getting plenty of minutes there despite his age/experience so one can only assume that Onomah hadnt shown the same quality in training

Top clubs cant afford to just chuck youth players on the pitch in the hope that they do well, the manager needs trust that the player is ready to slot in and perform to the required level.
Click to expand...
Yea I do agree, Poch obviously has/had his reasons for not playing him there. Frankly, before last summer I thought Onomah was pretty useless. Since then though after seeing him play CM I think there’s a future for him here in that position.
 
This debate will run along as he is one of our players, I've seen him play at youth, u23 and international level along with his brief apperances with the first team, apart from the youth team, where he stood out I've never been impressed with his ability to influence a game. He has good technique and a strong build but he never seems to get out of 2nd gear. I know his supporters will say he's not played in his "preferred" position but there are probably good reasons for that. I thought a loan would be good for him, but doubt a manager like Bruce will do much for him other than shout at him, but they may be what he needs. If he fails to make the grade I think it's down to him not imposing himself.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think Billys response nails it to be honest.

Onomah is bigger, more physical, has been around the first team squad longer, and Winks is the one who was trusted (and performed) in the position.

I think the only fair conlcusion is that he outperformed Onomah in training etc to earn the right. I dont really buy the idea Onomah is a victim of not being played in his ideal position.

And, to be honest, even in a less than favourable position it was/is still completely evident Onomah has ability. I dont question that. My only real complaint was a complete lack of looking like be thought he belonged there. And not in that "oh but he has a languid running style" way, but in a "he is not taking this chance at all" kind of way. Far too passive, bordering on anonymous, not taking ownership, not trying to make things happen - just running with the ebb and flow and thats it.

Which is, I think, entirely mental. Maybe a year in the Championship will see him return a more mature and sorted player. Someone who will try and put his stamp on things. Just like Winks did from his first appearance. I certainly hope so.

Other than that, all I would say is performing in the youth system really counts for nought when we are talking about the first team.
Click to expand...
How much did you watch him in the U20 WC? Because I simply do not recognise the player you are describing from the one that played such a big part in helping England win that tournament. You say the youth system counts for nought, but I beg to differ, because he showed in that tournament the very qualities you are suggesting he does not possess, ie he totally put his stamp on things and was the very opposite of passive and anonymous.

My argument is that he has shown all the basic qualities you say are essential, he just needs more time to grow into the role at a higher level. I will concede he may never get there but the basic ingredients are all present in abundance so it is just a matter of waiting to see how far he progresses in the next couple of seasons or so.

Remember practically everyone on here was convinced Kane would fall short of being a top striker despite impressing at youth and youth international level. The magnificent Chrissie Waddle did not start to blossom until his mid-twenties and got mercilessly pilloried by Tottenham fans in his first season with us.
 
Spur of the moment said:
How much did you watch him in the U20 WC? Because I simply do not recognise the player you are describing from the one that played such a big part in helping England win that tournament. You say the youth system counts for nought, but I beg to differ, because he showed in that tournament the very qualities you are suggesting he does not possess, ie he totally put his stamp on things and was the very opposite of passive and anonymous.

My argument is that he has shown all the basic qualities you say are essential, he just needs more time to grow into the role at a higher level. I will concede he may never get there but the basic ingredients are all present in abundance so it is just a matter of waiting to see how far he progresses in the next couple of seasons or so.

Remember practically everyone on here was convinced Kane would fall short of being a top striker despite impressing at youth and youth international level. The magnificent Chrissie Waddle did not start to blossom until his mid-twenties and got mercilessly pilloried by Tottenham fans in his first season with us.
Click to expand...


A players youth record gets them a foot in the door at first team level - but once there it's what they do on the training field and on the pitch with the first team which will determine whether they are good enough -playing well in youth tourmaments are a good sign that he has the potential but that alone wont get him game time - i trust Poch to make the right call on him
 
Spur of the moment said:
How much did you watch him in the U20 WC? Because I simply do not recognise the player you are describing from the one that played such a big part in helping England win that tournament. You say the youth system counts for nought, but I beg to differ, because he showed in that tournament the very qualities you are suggesting he does not possess, ie he totally put his stamp on things and was the very opposite of passive and anonymous.

My argument is that he has shown all the basic qualities you say are essential, he just needs more time to grow into the role at a higher level. I will concede he may never get there but the basic ingredients are all present in abundance so it is just a matter of waiting to see how far he progresses in the next couple of seasons or so.

Remember practically everyone on here was convinced Kane would fall short of being a top striker despite impressing at youth and youth international level. The magnificent Chrissie Waddle did not start to blossom until his mid-twenties and got mercilessly pilloried by Tottenham fans in his first season with us.
Click to expand...

As it happens I didnt watch any of the U20 WC, and Ill hold my hands up to never watching Onomah in youth football.

My experience of him is only what he has shown around the first team, where it really counts.

Once again, Im with Billy. The youth system is an indicator of potential, not the finished player. It earns a player a chance at the next level up, no more.

I understand he looked/looks like a real player at that level - but I have to reiterate - unless he can translate that into first team performances it really doesnt count for anything.

Your argument, middle paragraph - I dont contest at all. As I understand it he does have the ability. And from what Ive seen in the first team I agree, its obvious he has class. It absolutely is a matter of seeing if he can progress and start to impress himself on the first team.

I have at no point written him off. Only stated what I have seen, which is a player I dont think will make it. If he comes back from Villa having grown as a player, ala Rose, Walker and others, I will be absolutely delighted.

The real question is, how long does Pochettino see as him having to prove himself? He has been around the first team the whole time Poch has been here, and never made the step. And he has had chances to do so. Personally, I thought this loan was something of a last chance saloon, but of course only time will tell on that one.
 
I thought I read he pushed for the loan himself. Could be the making of him, IMO. Worth reiterating he's only barely out of his teens.
 
billyiddo said:
A players youth record gets them a foot in the door at first team level - but once there it's what they do on the training field and on the pitch with the first team which will determine whether they are good enough -playing well in youth tourmaments are a good sign that he has the potential but that alone wont get him game time - i trust Poch to make the right call on him
Click to expand...

tickle my balls with a feather for me, i wish i had a pound for every young player i have seen in various academy's who looked the real deal but then failed to carry that on to the highest level. Not saying Onomah will fail to shine here, time will tell.
 
parklane1 said:
tickle my balls with a feather for me, i wish i had a pound for every young player i have seen in various academy's who looked the real deal but then failed to carry that on to the highest level. Not saying Onomah will fail to shine here, time will tell.
Click to expand...
I agree with the sentiments about academy football, but to put this in to some context, he was the standout player in a team that won the U20 World Cup, so not just any old 15 year old playing academy matches.

He also looked good playing CM in men’s football for Villa winning a few MOTM awards there until he picked up an injury, when he came back Villa were on a good run so he’s been given a more attacking role in their team, so kudos in a way that they are trying to shoe horn him in.

I think he’s very much in Poch’s plans personally.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
I agree with the sentiments about academy football, but to put this in to some context, he was the standout player in a team that won the U20 World Cup, so not just any old 15 year old playing academy matches.

He also looked good playing CM in men’s football for Villa winning a few MOTM awards there until he picked up an injury, when he came back Villa were on a good run so he’s been given a more attacking role in their team, so kudos in a way that they are trying to shoe horn him in.

I think he’s very much in Poch’s plans personally.
Click to expand...

I do not disagree with most of that and he may go to be a very good player, however over the years i have seen many young players who played for national teams at the various levels and for whatever reason do not transfer that to the higher platform ( ie first team regulars).

Just to confirm my opinion on Onomah, he MAY go on to play at the highest level for us ( he still has time) but just because he has done well at U20 level does not mean he will ( imo).

Needless to say i hope he does.
 
Anyone else agree the news that Edwards has been loaned to Norwich and that CCV has been recalled whilst no mention of Onomah suggests he will be staying put at Villa for the remainder of the season?

I suspect many on here would prefer his Villa loan be terminated this window so he can go on loan to somewhere where they're willing to play him at CM rather than AM. But my suspicion is the plan will be to let him continue to battle it out at Villa until the end of the season.

Given that Villa look like being in the frame for promotion this could well work out the best place for him to continue playing. By the end of the season we should then have a better idea as to whether he's shown enough to remain in Poch's plans.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back