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Is our crumbled English spine the root of our problems?

Pirate55

Pirate55

The Last Man Standing 17/18
Since we all agree that we are currently in something of a slump, one of the reasons could be that we had previously had our best period under Poch when all our English players were fit and firing. What a difference nowadays. Can this possibly explain one of the key reasons for our decline?:

Walker - best right back in the country - sold
Trippier - Walkers replacement and (for a while) ok - sold
Rose - sadly withered on the vine
KWP - obviously not trusted and only the third choice RB now
Dier - Was one of the best DM's in the PL at one time - now absolutely dire
Dele - Once one of England's most exciting players - he has now lost all spice
Kane - One of the worlds best CF's but nowadays a shadow of his former self
Clarke - a mystery buy and one wonders about the strategy here
Sessignon - always injured and never fit from the moment he joined us

We undoubtedly need to bring in other English players to ensure we comply with the squad rules. We did reportedly try for:

Wan-Bassaka
Maguire (before his transfer to Leicester)
Barkley
Maddison
Grealish
Brookes

For one reason or another, none of the above happened. Poch seems to be over -reliant on Argenitians now - Gazza, Lamela, LoCelso and reportedly Dybala

Do we need to address our transfer strategy to bring in more (and better) young English players?
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think nationality is irrelevant (save for the squad rules).

I think the greater issue is the lack of a plan, or shape, or template to build from.

Which is odd, because thats precisely what got us where we are, IMO. Everything was focused, to a point, everyone knew their roles etc.

Now?
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I agree with most of your post but don't necessarily agree that nationality is irrelevant. English players have been brought up here, are used to the football in this country, speak the language, are used to the culture etc etc.
 
Pirate55 said:
I agree with most of your post but don't necessarily agree that nationality is irrelevant. English players have been bought up here, are used to the football in this country, speak the language, are used to the culture etc etc.
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Its a minor factor, not a deal breaker IMO.

Nationality really doesnt define a players ability, traits, suitability to a system etc.

And to be honest - ask yourself "Who is the best striker/centre back/full back/etc in the premier league of all time" - I suspect the answer for most, if not all, will not be an Englishman.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Its a minor factor, not a deal breaker IMO.

Nationality really doesnt define a players ability, traits, suitability to a system etc.

And to be honest - ask yourself "Who is the best striker/centre back/full back/etc in the premier league of all time" - I suspect the answer for most, if not all, will not be an Englishman.
Click to expand...
Shearer/King/Cole
 
Shearer a better striker than Henry? Aguero? Van Nistelrooy?

Ledley = obviously. The foreign legion would likely populate your further choices though.

Ashley Cole? I dont know Id say he was the best, but I dont know who else Id suggest off the top of my head so fair enough.

If we accepted your 3 as definitive, thats 8 others that arent English. Which kind of illustrates my point...
 
I think the spine is the issue, but they weren’t all English. Dembele Wanyama Jan Toby and Eriksen were all part of a seldom rotated eleven they at its peak was keeping clean sheets regularly whilst having the craft to get a goal in a tight game. I don’t dispute many of the other players in the OP were also important but I tend to think of the spine being the central part of the pitch and the wide ones are a little more interchangeable
 
I think people are trying to account for something that doesn’t exist... simple reasons

There are so many variables that have affected our current plight

mostly their foreign players being wanting to leave... well according to some that is

so clearly it’s Brexit that’s caused the issues
 
galeforce said:
When was the last time a team with an “English spine” won anything?
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fair to say the step up that city had under pep came form English players stepping up... even though stones and walker may have dropped off again. But his first title came with walker owning RB, stones CB and sterling attacking forward (not sure what his position is anymore)
 
Bedfordspurs said:
fair to say the step up that city had under pep came form English players stepping up... even though stones and walker may have dropped off again. But his first title came with walker owning RB, stones CB and sterling attacking forward (not sure what his position is anymore)
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3 out of 11? While Kompany was imperious, the like of Toure in midfield and Aguero and Silva in attack were all incredible.

The spine certainly wasnt English, nor the most key players IMO.

If you extend it to "British" then maybe Utd? Back in about 99!
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
3 out of 11? While Kompany was imperious, the like of Toure in midfield and Aguero and Silva in attack were all incredible.

The spine certainly wasnt English, nor the most key players IMO.

If you extend it to "British" then maybe Utd? Back in about 99!
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Schmeichel
Irwin
Stam
Johnsen
Keane
Blomqvist
Giggs
Yorke

Certainly Neville, Scholes, Becks and Butt were key too.
 
I agree that a strong spine is absolutely crucial. But I don't think it matters about the nationality of the player. It's instead about the character of the players.

Neither Patrick Vieira nor Roy Keane were English but both of them probably played the biggest role in their teams being so successful.

Looking at our spine now we have Kane, NDombele and Vertonghen (still struggling to understand why Levy hasn't given him a new contract?) who are good enough to play in the spine of a title winning team, but I think that's it. Does that suggest that we should be prioritising a central midfielder and another centre half instead of new full backs?
 
Finney Is Back said:
I agree that a strong spine is absolutely crucial. But I don't think it matters about the nationality of the player. It's instead about the character of the players.

Neither Patrick Vieira nor Roy Keane were English but both of them probably played the biggest role in their teams being so successful.

Looking at our spine now we have Kane, NDombele and Vertonghen (still struggling to understand why Levy hasn't given him a new contract?) who are good enough to play in the spine of a title winning team, but I think that's it. Does that suggest that we should be prioritising a central midfielder and another centre half instead of new full backs?
Click to expand...

I think we should be focussing on all 4 positions, I live in hope that we've done succession planning in these areas and have some long term targets in place given the need for these areas should have been foreseen 2-3 seasons back.
 
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