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American politics

Rorschach said:
Well, I was more thinking of the other fudgewads that make up the GOP. There seems to be lots of resignations and/or doubling down in support of Trump. A lot more than can be attributed to the usual partisanship. I just wonder how many more of them Putin has by the balls.
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I think that it is almost certain that they have material on other Republicans. It is the way Russia operates and greedy people are easy to trick.
 
milo said:
I think that it is almost certain that they have material on other Republicans. It is the way Russia operates and greedy people are easy to trick.
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Twittersphere (yeah I know) is awash with Rand Paul conspiracy theories tonight. I don't know a lot about him but time to find out more.
 
Jordinho said:
Trump - ‘We are putting America first but you have to put your country first, and other people have to put their country first.’

Morgan - ‘The sceptic in me would say: ‘What is the incentive for America to do a great deal with the United Kingdom?”

Trump - ‘We would make a great deal with the United Kingdom because they have product that we like. I mean they have a lot of great product. They make phenomenal things, you know, and you have different names - you can say “England”, you can say “UK”, you can say “United Kingdom” so many different - you know you have, you have so many different names - Great Britain. I always say: “Which one do you prefer? Great Britain? You understand what I’m saying?’

Morgan - ‘You know Great Britain and the United Kingdom aren’t exactly the same thing?’

Trump - ‘Right, yeah. You know I know, but a lot of people don’t know that. But you have lots of different names. The fact is you make great product, you make great things. Even your farm product is so fantastic.’
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It defies belief that he is the most powerful man in the world and talks like a 13 year old. I hope if we do a trade deal with America which I am all for we are strong enough to walk away if it is a bad deal. America and the EU are the same to me in that regard. Do not trust May to do the right thing.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
It defies belief that he is the most powerful man in the world and talks like a 13 year old. I hope if we do a trade deal with America which I am all for we are strong enough to walk away if it is a bad deal. America and the EU are the same to me in that regard. Do not trust May to do the right thing.
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It beggars belief that while he has spoken like this from the outset that there is not one person in his "base" who buys into his bs who also has/had a little voice in the back of their head telling them "This guy is a fudging macaron, we need someone better."
 
monkeybarry said:
Hitler's term ended up being quite a long one, in hindsight appeasement perhaps wasn't the best strategy......a man who does the same thing twice and expects a different outcome.....
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Trumps has struggled ot deal with the immigration problem

Obama and the regime before created a huge immigration problem by dropping bombs on Libya etc

I know what is worse in my book.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Trumps has struggled ot deal with the immigration problem

Obama and the regime before created a huge immigration problem by dropping bombs on Libya etc

I know what is worse in my book.
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The war in Libya was a disaster, but it didn't create the immigration problem* for the USA-- that was the "war on drugs." That's the biggest contributing factor that makes people want to leave dangerous countries in Central America and go to a country that is hostile to them (USA). And make no mistake, it was hostile to them before Trump.

Obama deported more people than every other president before him combined. There are articles on "the deporter in chief." There were pictures circulating of kids in cages that were actually from the time of the Obama administration. Now,this has got worse under Trump, the treatment of people has become more inhumane, particularly with the forced separation of children from their mothers -- these people are not criminals, it is not illegal to be undocumented and attempt to claim asylum. This forced separation is unnecessary and, imo, disgusting on a human level.

But, as with many things, things were pretty bad under Obama/Bush/Clinton on and on and on. Trump has the bonus of being such a complete ar5ehole that more people are awake to the horrible things America does.

* re. "immigration problem" -- a lot of this is over blown and fear-mongering for political purposes. So the degree of the problem is difficult to really quantify properly.
 
Obama and Bush and Blairs dropping of bombs did create an immigration problem though whcih we see in Europe, thats my point. Killing millions and creating making many more flee their country is worse than how Trump deals with immigration without a shadow of doubt.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Obama and Bush and Blairs dropping of bombs did create an immigration problem though whcih we see in Europe, thats my point. Killing millions and creating making many more flee their country is worse than how Trump deals with immigration without a shadow of doubt.
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Yeah it's affected European immigration, definitely. But it doesn't have much to do with Trump struggling to deal with immigration, because that's on their southern border and the reasons are unrelated. And because one thing is worse (let's say, the Libyan/Iraq wars) doesn't mean that the forced separation of infant children from their mothers isn't a disgusting thing. It's possible to be appalled by both war and the treatment of human beings crossing a border.
 
the dza said:
Yeah it's affected European immigration, definitely. But it doesn't have much to do with Trump struggling to deal with immigration, because that's on their southern border and the reasons are unrelated. And because one thing is worse (let's say, the Libyan/Iraq wars) doesn't mean that the forced separation of infant children from their mothers isn't a disgusting thing. It's possible to be appalled by both war and the treatment of human beings crossing a border.
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You are not getting what I am saying.

If you are as a person are yupset with how Trump is dealing with immigration then morally you should feel alot more hate towards what Obama done in his term with his bombing record.

People are being hugely selective with their hate.
 
Grays_1890 said:
You are not getting what I am saying.

If you are as a person are yupset with how Trump is dealing with immigration then morally you should feel alot more hate towards what Obama done in his term with his bombing record.

People are being hugely selective with their hate.
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I agree with that. It's not just the so-called left though. You are getting a lot of Trump voters/supporters who defend anything and everything that he does, including re. the recent negative developments with immigration policy.

Much of the selective hate (both on the left and the right) is driven by people with political agendas rather than any real concern for the human beings affected. I don't think Hilary Clinton cares about immigrants any more than I think Trump cares about what happens when bombs get dropped in the Middle East (for example, drone strikes have hugely increased under Trump, as have the resulting civilian deaths).
 
the dza said:
Much of the selective hate (both on the left and the right) is driven by people with political agendas rather than any real concern for the human beings affected.
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Well thats the point, people making out they care about human rights and saying its the main driving force behind Trump hate are liars based on so much of what they look at, see and ignore.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Well thats the point, people making out they care about human rights and saying its the main driving force behind Trump hate are liars based on so much of what they look at, see and ignore.
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Some people. Not all. Some people do care about human rights and protest against the wrongs of previous presidents as well. A million people marched in the streets of the UK against the Bush/Blair Iraq war. There are lots of people who care, no matter who is in charge.

Now, I do think that when someone like Obama is in charge, many of the soft-left/centrists just go to sleep. People like Trump wake them up and they start caring about the things that they should have been caring about all along. So in that respect, I agree with you. However, even if some of the hate against Trump is merely politically motivated, that doesn't mean that some of the things he is doing aren't just plain wrong. And those things are still worthy of protest, even if some of the protesters are hypocritical.
 
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Grays_1890 said:
You are not getting what I am saying.

If you are as a person are yupset with how Trump is dealing with immigration then morally you should feel alot more hate towards what Obama done in his term with his bombing record.

People are being hugely selective with their hate.
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The left always let of others they perceive to be on the left. They are also more vocal in their hatred when they are in opposition, this is from someone who is voting left at the next election as I want change, just not keen on some of the people I will be voting alongside.
 
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