In addition we'll have stadium sponsorship of around £20m per yeah and I assume there's something in it for the NFL stuff and then potentially concerts etc could maybe bring in another £10-20m per yeah (guess work) but even if we're the 6th biggest team in terms of revenue that should be enough to have an impact.
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Davinson Sanchez
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I just don't agree. The success of this club is never top 4 or bust, or top 4 or exodus. It just isn't. And besides, players who really want to go, like Walker, will go even if we finish 2nd. (He probably would have gone even if we won the League).
Players are here because they get regular starts under a top manager who improves them and allows them to compete at the top of the league. For them to leave they need to be absolutely sure they've done all their improving here, and are ready for the pressures and the risk that comes with joining a new club that is definitely better than ours, and that club needs to have a first team slot obviously available. Dier was a bit of a risk this summer, as Mourinho probably would have played him a fair amount, but we showed Dier he could learn and develop more playing here and we had a strong negotiating hand (which we will have on most player contracts).
There are very few clubs that players can go to that are better for long term career development than ours. We may lose Rose, but unless United come strong for him his only other option is probably Everton. We may lose Toby - unfortunately he is genuine top tier and that can happen. I don't see us losing Alli, because he is nowhere near ready for Madrid yet and will know it himself. I don't see us losing Eriksen this summer unless Barca offer silly money. I don't see us losing Kane.
Basically, we will lose players whether we come top 4 or not, but needing to finish top 4 is just not true. Our club will keep progressing regardless.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I agree, it's always a realistic ambition. And for the last couple of years we have genuinely had the best defence, midfield and attack IMO. It's not the case this year. Emirates Marketing Project's attack is better, and with Victor and Toby out we are not as good in the other areas of the pitch either.
Atletico definitely needs to be the model, but it's not a complaint about money to understand that some seasons we will have a dip and others an increase. The important thing is to be in the conversation. And if we are, we will get enough high points.
The stadium is going to be the single biggest thing to get us to the next level. Beyond finishing top 4, beyond one or two magical signings in any given transfer window. And it won't cure all our ills instantly, but it is going to be the biggest thing for us moving up a level as a club.
I think the key point re the stadium revenue is that although it wont put us above the clubs richer than us it it will give us more money to carry on doing what we are doing - we have consistently out performed our finances the past decade or so and more money coming in means we have more opportunity to improve further - id rather be outperforming a budget of 200m than a budget of 100m essentially
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Luka Modric
The stadium has been designed specifically that it can make money every day of the week. Not just match days and special events.
I think its a genius move. The sports centre, the conferencing facilities, the bar (which is a novelty, longest in the country, own brew, overlooking the pitch..), the roof walk, stadium tours... Its going to be bringing cash in every single day.
And while in reality it might move us from a distant 6th to a close 6th or 5th - that is still a tremendous change.
When we can afford to pay half the squad 100k+ regularly we will see a great improvement in both the depth of the squad but also player retention.
I think its clear - like @billyiddo points out - we will continue to work the way we work. I think we will just do it in a higher bracket of player. I fully expect us to continue buying youth, promoting them, developing them. Working with a young team and selling for big money to fund moves... I just think we will do it at a higher level. There will be more Sanchez type moves, players at that cost and obvious quality...
FatBloke
Jose Dominguez
I'm not sure I completely agree about Atletico being a model due to the relative strength of the Spanish league. Finishing ahead of two out of Sevilla, Valencia and Villareal (and therefore qualifying for the CL) is far easier than finishing in front of two from Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project, ManU, Arsenal and Liverpool.
Admittedly, Atletico have done bloody well to win their league and get to two CL finals, but I'm not sure comparing us with them is appropriate. They should qualify for CL pretty comfortably, whereas we've now got a real fight on our hands to finish 4th.
Back to Sanchez. He's bloody good but he does work on fine margins. It was only a matter of time before he got in trouble. First the yellow card against Arsenal (which was a damn fine tackle) and now this. He'll learn from it. And as someone else said, the rest may do him some good. Just a pity we'll miss him, Toby and Wanyama all at once.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
As you say, they won the League, got to 2 CL finals, and they made it a genuine and consistent top 3, as opposed to finishing ahead of the others. It's like us being top 6 vs the best of the remaining 15. If we are at least in the discussion with the top 6, we are ok. If we slipped like Everton did last year, it's not that impressive. If Everton get to being in the discussion with us and the others, and make it a top 7, also good for them.
Atletico should be a model. Dortmund should be a model. Napoli should be a model. These clubs will have down moments but if they consistently are in the discussion with much more well financed clubs (rather than merely finishing top of the also-rans then that is impressive.
It is a shame for Sanchez. He was more jittery earlier in the season, and would dive in where he didn't need to, but has largely cut it out of his game, only now to get punished when he could be classed as unlucky both times.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
In the last 10 seasons, Atletico have won the league once, the UEFA cup once, the copa del ray once. They've finished runners up in the CL twice, 2 semis and one QF in the past 5 seasons in the CL. They have done this with a lesser turnover than us.
It is perhaps easier on paper but not necessarily in real life, as Spanish teams have been far better than English ones in European competition until recently. More importantly, even if that were true, the top level of the clubs at their top (Real and Barcelona) have been far better than anything we have fieleded for years.
I think it is a very appropriate comparison and one we should aspire to.
I agree about Sanchez. Great player, who's on the margins slightly and will learn from this experience.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
I would disagree that we have had the best defence, midfield and attack. However, if you do think we have had (and have lost nobody other than Walker), I would have to raise two points:
-Why do you think it is unreasonable for fans to expect a top 4 finish if we apparently have the best team in every position on the field? Or even if we then say Emirates Marketing Project are on a rampage, that would still make us the 2nd best? Or 3rd best at worst right? So why is it acceptable for us to finish outside of the top 4? Especially if we actively prioritise the league over the domestic cups especially?
-If we have had the best midfield, attack and defence over the past two seasons in England, one of the best leagues in Europe, then Poch and the players have majorly fudged up. We have no trophies. Closest we've come in the cups is a semi during those 2 years. We finished 3rd one season (on 71 points), 10 points behind 1st and 2nd another (on 86, 7 points behind the champions). We got knocked out of the Eurpoa league by Dortmund 5-1 in the round of 16 one season and then round of 32 next by Gent.
If we really do consider that we have had the best team over the past 2 seasons, that is rather worrying for me and reflects badly on the staff.
As it is, I personally don't think we've had the best of those areas. Perhaps best defence (as a unit) but not best midfield or attack. I also personally feel we'll come to regret that Leicester season greatly in the long run but my own personal opinion.
Like I said, I think the stadium is going to be great and I could not be more excited. I think it will help us greatly. I also can't wait to get away from Wembley, I hate our performances, I hate the atnosphere, I hate the journey there, the food, the view, the delay in getting out of the stadium, everything. I just think some people are perhaps being a tad unrealistic about what the stadium will mean for us. It won't stop players wanting to leave. It won't necessarily guarantee a boost in fortunes (look at Arsenal). We won't be able to pay as much as the other clubs still. Commercial income is still king.
I am just worried that some fans will end up being a bit disappointed when they should be delighted at this massive step our club is taking!
tynesidespur
Terry Yorath
Concentrating on only the league I'm pretty sure I've seen an example of a league table which shows we were top over a 24 month period.
To add to that in both seasons we've been the league's top scorers and stingiest defence. I'd imagine we're also up there for shots/shots-on-target/xG difference and possession (but don't have any of these to hand).
What we've been unable to do is translate those stats above into enough points to win the league.
Its not a slight on the team - in effect Pochettino has created a structure to get the absolute maximum out of the tools available for the job. So, as units, I would argue that probably the first choice XI has been the best in the league.
There are a number of factors which can prevent you being the outright winner. Clearly in 15/16 we didn't have enough experience or belief that we could win it. I've no doubt if the order of the last 2 seasons were reversed we'd run out comfortable league winners. I also agree 100% that we may well regret that Leicester season and not knowing what we had in our hands at that time.
Last season Chelsea managed to hit a momentum in terms of regularly scoring the first goal in matches and then being incredibly clinical with the chances they had (a skill in itself but partially attributable to luck). I don't think we've hit that overachievement level yet (perhaps slightly last season certainly in terms of points picked up at home). This season I think Emirates Marketing Project have broken out from the pack for outperforming their metrics.
We've rather unfortunately timed our runs of form at the wrong moment. Chelsea won 12 straight in autumn/winter to give themselves an unassailable lead which even when we won 12 of the last 13 wasn't enough down the back straight to haul them in. If we could get a momentum like Chelsea did earlier in the season (and like Emirates Marketing Project now) you can pretty much win the league and break the spirit of your competitors by early Spring.
In effect the top 6 as a whole are pretty evenly matched but certainly 1 or 2 teams will break out and over-perform/be more clinical/get a run of luck that takes them away from the pack, where a different bounce of the ball/less confident striker can mean the difference between struggling to make top 4 and actually pushing for the title.
We aren't as bad as we appear at the moment. Things could look very different in a month or so but we've given some very good sides a head start already which means we'll have to cut our cloth at aiming for 4th at the moment at least.
The long-term aim for me is to try to become a club which regularly hits 80 points where 72-75 points is a below-par season and if we can punch beyond 80 we have a 50-50 chance of winning the league. Easier said than done but I'd expect that given our last 2 years have yielded 70 & 86 points - we should be hoping/aiming for somewhere in the middle of that total to show consolidation this year.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Tyneside has said it already, but over the last two years, we were the most consistent side. Most points. Most goals scored. Least goals against. Most shots taken. Least shots conceded. We didn’t win a trophy because we came up against 2 teams with no major injuries, suspensions or Europe to contend with in Leceister and Chelsea. We didn’t win the FA Cup or League Cup because they are crap shoots - It’s nothing to do with quality of player or coaching, it’s as much to do with luck or a decent team deciding it’s their only opportunity to win something so throwing all their eggs in that basket. We didn’t win the CL because we were naive last year. But in terms of quality of players, we had a defence where every player is seemingly courted by the Manc clubs. We had an almost unbeatable pivot of Dembele and Wanyama/Dier, and we had Alli scoring 18 goals in a season, Son scoring 20 odd across all competitions, Kane nearly hitting Ronaldo form, and Eriksen as an assist machine.
I’ve cone to realise a lot of football comes down to luck and circumstance and to not get too bogged down in results here or there, or even trophies. We played a great game against Chelsea in that Cup semi final. We got 86 fudging points in the league. Whatever happens, I will always look back on those two seasons with the absolute pride that our club became feared again. We did all that with a lower net spend than anyone in the league, and against teams that had 7 days rest between every game while we also competed in Europe, and dealt with long injuries.
But, even all that considered, it doesn’t mean we can expect top 4. We should expect minimum top 6 every year, but top 4 is too much to expect when 2 good teams need to miss out. And sometimes it will be us. Other teams will hit an upswing as we deal with a downer. It happens. But the journey is fantastic. We are on the right track.
I don’t think the stadium is going to make us Real Madrid overnight. What I think, to be honest, is that ENIC want to get the stadium built so that they can leave a superclub in waiting to a good buyer that wants to take it on. Buyers that are richer than them. Because when we have that stadium we will have all the potential in the world. But even if ENIC are still in charge, that stadium allows us (as someone says above) to continue to do what we are doing, just at a higher level. More Sanchez type buys. More chance of retaining our top talent for a season or two longer. Being an absolute destination club for the best young talent in the world until they hit their peak and decide to join Real or Barca. I’m happy with that, because if all clubs are doing their absolute maximum, that’s how we can compete. And on the seasons where are high potential talents hit their heights at the same time as the Citys of this world see theirs on the decline, we will win trophies. Sometimes, City will just be too good and we’ll have our spine injured or knackered and we won’t be able to compete, but I’m ok with that.
90291Spur
Les Ferdinand
I nominate you for the 'Getting The Thread Back on Track' award for 2017.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Sorry Brain, its an interesting topic worth following up on but I agree that we (mostly me in fairness) have taken it off topic enough already.
I will just say that I personally do not feel you can claim to be the best and most consistent club in the league (and therefore in Europe) for 2 seasons straight and win nothing. Over those 2 years, we had the chance to win 9 and to be completely honest, never quite came close to winning any.
I hope we start soon.
Either way, back to Sanchez. Will be a big big miss for us in the next 3 days, especially with Toby already out. We seem to be light in the CB position somehow despite one of our primary formations including 3 cbs. I guess it will be Vertonghen and Dier now? With Winks and Dembele being 1st choice for cm. Or maybe moving Davies into lcb and starting Rose if we want to play with the 3. Who knows, we'll see I guess.
I will just say that I personally do not feel you can claim to be the best and most consistent club in the league (and therefore in Europe) for 2 seasons straight and win nothing. Over those 2 years, we had the chance to win 9 and to be completely honest, never quite came close to winning any.
I hope we start soon.
Either way, back to Sanchez. Will be a big big miss for us in the next 3 days, especially with Toby already out. We seem to be light in the CB position somehow despite one of our primary formations including 3 cbs. I guess it will be Vertonghen and Dier now? With Winks and Dembele being 1st choice for cm. Or maybe moving Davies into lcb and starting Rose if we want to play with the 3. Who knows, we'll see I guess.
Olle73
Jason Dozzell
Even if the ref know the book (much better than any of us do), it is a thin line between right or wrong, between a card or letting it go. And the ref must make the decision within milliseconds. And there comes the psychology. If the player has a reputation of playing fair, he might get away with it, while another player would get a card for exactly the same thing.
So it it vital to not be placed the he fouling players box.
So it it vital to not be placed the he fouling players box.
awesome dawson
Mitchell Thomas
The Fatman
Espen Baardsen
Have we appealed his red card, and how long before we hear the result?
JerusalemMan
Johnny Morrison
I believe that Poch said it will not be appealed
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
apparently not
The Fatman
Espen Baardsen
Thanks