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Climate Change

Discussion in 'Randomination' started by SpurMeUp, 23 Jan 2019.

  1. Rorschach

    Rorschach Steve Sedgley

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    A good point. There are engineered floors designed for underfloor heating. That might be the best option.
     
  2. P.D.

    P.D. Mauricio Taricco

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    @SpurMeUp - I'm renovating my house at the moment, we have original parquet flooring so left it down there and couldn't get underfloor heating but there's a couple of things you can do. There's a wet underfloor heating system called Polypipe (https://www.polypipeufh.com/) which is designed for retrofitting and is only about 2cm's deep. You are quite lucky and by the sounds of it have a suspended floor anyway so should be easy to lift boards, install underfloor heating with insulation and lay a new floor on top of it. Sad thing is you have to use engineered wood if you want underfloor heating now which has a shorter lifespan and just doesn't have the same feel.

    Alternatively to fill those gaps when the pro's sand it they collect the dust and make it into a type of paste and use it to seal the gaps in the floor.

    I'd defo go with underfloor heating though, my parents had it in an extension and it's such a nice feel and gives a proper spread of heat as well and saves you wasting wall space for radiators.
     
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  3. Jordinho

    Jordinho John White Staff Member

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  4. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Edgar Davids

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    There are quite a few 'lo-profile' systems now designed to go on top of existing floors. Eliminating any worries about excessive floor height raises. They are generally pre-routed boards (cement based)

    The problem is it does depend on the current floor build-up though, especially if you are looking at thermal efficiency.

    The retro-fitting image that @Rorschach posted is the common way of getting some insulation under a joisted floor.

    Of course, just laying UFH over the top of an unisulated floor (timber or concrete slab) is going to lose a lot of the heat its producing, plus cold spots and diffusing that heat are further problems. Also heat up and down times are quicker when laid on top when the real point of UFH is you run it low constantly and when the pipes imbedded in the concrete (screed) with insulation slab beneath the screed (ideal build-up) it acts as a thermal store meaning less fluctuations and energy required to keep it at the desired temperatures.

    I'd recommend UFH to anyone, it has a much better warmth distribution than radiators plus you get all floor/wall space back a radiator affects. (and its cat heaven)
     
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  5. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Jimmy McCormick

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    The cat would be happy. Do you need engineered timber or tiles for UFH? Can't use proper wood?
     
  6. P.D.

    P.D. Mauricio Taricco

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    I thought you can insulate the low profile ones as well and pack some celotex etc around them which is almost as good? Obviously not quite the same as digging up your whole concrete floor and embedding it in but that's not really practical unless your getting an extension.

    Just picked this up (https://getconnected.honeywellhome.com/en/evohome) so I can finally zone my heating, I work from home so to heat my study in winter I had to heat my entire house all day which was ridiculous. Not the cheapest but should pay off in the long term. I'm surprised so many heating systems aren't zoned at all - most of them don't even have simple upstairs/downstairs.
     
  7. Rorschach

    Rorschach Steve Sedgley

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    For your setup, I think I would recommend engineered boards designed to take the constant heat. The boards will have a top layer of 'proper wood' and look good. Tiles are certainly better but you must lay them on timber sheets in order that they don't move (and crack the tiles). So you are adding extra layers to the floor that will block the heat from the pipes.

    As @ricky2tricky4city says, retrofitting between or over joists means you will never have a significant thermal mass in the floor to absorb and release heat over a long period. The floors will be quick to heat up and cool down. It's not ideal but works reasonably well.
     
    Last edited: 5 Aug 2019
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  8. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Jimmy McCormick

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    It looks like we'll have to lift the floor, insulate and put in engineered boards. Any tips on where to buy from?

    Should create a home improvements thread or something, though this keeps the climate change one on the first page I guess.

    ----

    Are batteries or hydrogen the long term future? I know most people are investing in batteries, but longer term I am no so sure.

    - Batteries fade and need replacing. TopGear (how annoying is it now? Trying to fake jocky camaraderie rather than let it develop - let a dynamic evolve between the presenters). Anyway they had a Leaf with 80k miles and it had a range of 30 miles apparently. How environmental is it to make/replace/dispose of batteries?

    - Nickle. There isn't enough of it.

    - Charging. 3 hours at the quickest to fill the 'tank' makes batteries a step backwards in some ways.



    Hydrogen.

    - We'd need to develop how to produce it. Currently its too costly. It takes a lot of energy to make. But its everywhere around us, and plentiful if we can seperate it and store it. Then you could fill up as you do now.

    - Hydrogen doesn't have the weight issue of batteries. To carry more batteries for range you need more energy etc. And cars, planes are more effecient when lighter. Batteries wouldn't work for planes, hydrogen would potentially. Though its highly explosive right? So that presents issues in itself.

    - In Japan they are going for hydrogen. Most other places seem to think batteries are the answer. But I have reservations that they are actually that environmental when you take into account longevity, production, disposal, plus added weight. And does the world have enough nickle? If we advance how to seperate hydrogen without it using a lot of energy, and we find safe ways to store hydrogen, then it should come through against the odds?
     
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  9. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Edgar Davids

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    Some do come with some insulation built into the panel BUT it all contributes to build up height.

    An existing uninsulated concrete floor may have a 40-60mm screed on top of it that is sometimes not that hard to break out (compared to the whole floor), so allows you more room for build up- maybe 20-30mm of celotex.

    Most systems can be zoned with multiple loops to the manifold and individual room controllers (most are wireless).

    I'm just doing the rear extension and back part of my house and was going to leave it as radiators in the front of the house but I'm not sure now? UFH all over me thinks?
     
  10. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Edgar Davids

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    Interested to know how you get on with the Honeywell?
     
  11. P.D.

    P.D. Mauricio Taricco

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    If I had a choice I'd put UFH in every room including the bedrooms, wasn't an option in this house but when I move that's what I'll be doing everywhere.

    Indeed height is the problem, even worse with newer properties where the ceilings are so low - I can understand in flats but if building new houses why not make the ceilings a little higher, can't take any longer to develop and the outcome is better.

    Will let you know once we get into winter.
     
  12. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Edgar Davids

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    Plasterboard is 2400mm...they're going no higher than that.
     
  13. Rorschach

    Rorschach Steve Sedgley

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    The ceiling height issue can be solved on the ground floor in new builds by digging a little deeper inside the rising walls. Floor level and ceiling heights then are not affected as you are digging down.
    The upper floors you will need to be a little more creative or accept a lower ceiling height.

    I'm building a house now with UFH everywhere (12 zones !!!). Luckily I don't have ceiling height considerations as the neighbouring houses all have high ceilings, 3m or so, and so will mine.
     
  14. Bullet

    Bullet Rafael Van Der Vaart

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    I agree... whilst you can just turn down the radiator inlet flow or thermostat for rooms you rarely go in, each room or zone should have specific timers and temperatures i.e. I want my bedroom to be X degrees at this time, then Y degrees, then Z etc. Really easy to do with Apps nowadays.
     
  15. scaramanga

    scaramanga Steve Sedgley Staff Member

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    I wouldn't be without it, but I can see why the initial outlay would dissuade some people.
     
  16. Rorschach

    Rorschach Steve Sedgley

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  17. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Edgar Davids

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    Do most of that sh.it already
     
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  18. Rorschach

    Rorschach Steve Sedgley

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    Everybody marching today? Good. See you there.
     
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  19. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Jimmy McCormick

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    Did you use an electric system or plumbed in with water?
     
  20. SpurMeUp

    SpurMeUp Jimmy McCormick

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    Is there one in Tottenham!?
     

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