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Christian Eriksen

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by spurspinter1, 30 Aug 2013.

  1. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Luka Modric

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    Last season he had to, given the issues we faced. It was the only way to get the best out of the squad/Sissoko specifically.

    I never once thought it was a "by design" approach. Why would we choose to be less effective defensively, offensively and in possession!?

    Im not too worried about formations. Have stated to you directly, a number of times, I believe any formation can work.

    I am yet to see any signs of Poch actually knowing how to get a diamond working with this squad though. Yet to see work on the training ground find its way onto the pitch. Yet to see the players growing in comfort (or even belief) with it.

    Yet to see anything that indicates it will work.

    If the reality really is "It doesnt work, but it will once we have had a couple of transfer windows" then its shockingly bad management right now, IMHO.
     
  2. fernadez

    fernadez Anthony Gardner

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    Alli was never a playmaker and never will be.

    His skill is finishing off moves, he might play the odd through ball etc but I've never seen him control a game in my life.

    Re the diamond.

    We're more than 2 players away, even with a RB and DM the problems still persists of; roles of the front line (Kane as a provider to Son is not a long term strategy, who plays as the #10 and how, how the team defends as a unit (keeping 3 high and asking 3 midfielders to cover the width of the pitch isn't working), who provides the width? and so on...
     
  3. PochettinoPochettinoPochettino

    PochettinoPochettinoPochettino Serge Aurier

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    the guys a fraud and is more bothered about his fashion label with ASOS and image rather than his football career. Waste of a squad player and would sell him now. Probably wouldnt get much more than we paid for him mind, similar to Tripps money.
     
  4. StephenH

    StephenH Dimitar Berbatov

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    Still think Eriksen could stay and do an excellent job for us with the correct manager and where he can see a future!
     
  5. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Edgar Davids

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    I disagree with you. Poch could've used Sissoko as one of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1 no problem at all, or on the right of a standard 4-4-2. Or as the 1 in a 4-1-4-1 or one of the central midfielders in a 3-5-2. This season he has then persisted with the formation even after bringing in N'Dombele and Lo Celso and having Winks, Lamela, Eriksen, Skipp and even Wanyama and Dier all available.

    The formation isn't the sole reason why we are less effective. Remember that we changed to a 4-2-3-1 against Brighton and were actually far, FAR worse than in pretty much any game that I can remember in which we played the diamond. Also in the game against Bayern the score was 5-1 to them after we had stopped playing the diamond.

    I think we are currently less effective for a combination of reasons. Firstly we have lost some very good players to sales/injuries/physical decline (We haven't got anyone anywhere near as good as Walker, Rose, Wanayama and Dembele were at their peak and we have two players in Alderweireld and Eriksen who were getting into just about everyone's end of season best in PL teams). Secondly I think the team are still learning how to play the diamond and lastly we are still a few players short of having the right personnel to play the diamond.... (right back and base of the midfield).

    I thought that the training ground work was just starting to show itself in an attacking sense against Bayern. Defensively it needs a lot more work though as we had Winks charging around after the ball like a 10 year old and neither Sissoko or N'Dombele really knowing where to position themselves at all and Dele Ali not really tucking in to create the other midfielder as the diamond shifts across.

    There is no reason at all why a 4-4-2 diamond cannot be just as, if not more successful then a 4-2-3-1. Both formations should commit just as many players to attack and defend.
     
    BrainOfLevy likes this.
  6. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Luka Modric

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    Of course you do ;)

    I said back then, make Sissoko a Parker-esque DM. Keep it simple, use his athleticism to protect the back line and build up a team from there.

    I maintain that was the smartest thing to do, but Poch chose differently. Trying a variety of options before settling on the diamond - forcing Winks to hold while Sissoko careered around doing whatever Sissoko does.

    Its one time I think Poch fudged up, big. And it disappoints me he persisted with it.

    We did change to 4231, we have had this discussion. When the players down tools commenting on the formation is entirely a waste of time, its meaningless.

    I know you saw something against Bayern, but I most certainly didnt. I think, when you consider our players have had 4/5/6 years together, seeing them link up sporadically is very easily ascribed to them knowing each others game, more so than training ground work coming to fruition.

    Particulaly when positionally the whole team is all over the place, not showing any real sign of coherence or direction.

    You know as well as I, you start with the basics. Defending. You get a solid shape and build from there.

    Us? Not happening. Bayern is the poster boy for the diamond, and it was so effective it got 95 minutes football into our players in 35 minutes. There is nothing to point to with it as either a work in progress or a success.

    The only real counter is that of personel, which if true means we are knowingly playing to our own disadvantage because what? In a month or two players will come in and change our fortunes? Surely good sense says to work with what you have in the best way to suit it?
     
  7. parklane1

    parklane1 Barry Daines

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    Well i have watched a lot of great teams over the years and they have usually always have played through their best player ( as Eriksen was) so nothing new in that respect. But i do understand the point you are making.



    Without a doubt it can but i think a lot of fans have convinced themselves that it is a rubbish formation no matter what.
     
    Finney Is Back and thfcsteff like this.
  8. Kandi1977

    Kandi1977 Jack Jull

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    The experts in here should just take over the whole club. We'd get all the players we'd want, easily get rid of those not wanted,all the players would be happy bunnies, and we'd win everything with the tactic masters in here. Can't understand why this ain't happening.
     
  9. parklane1

    parklane1 Barry Daines

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    Football manager and games like it have a lot to answer for.
     
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  10. fernadez

    fernadez Anthony Gardner

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    Any formation can work with the right players in the right positions, when your a club that doesn't have those right players you need to have a different 'right' formation to compensate.
     
  11. Legohamster

    Legohamster Terry Venables

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    Problem with the Diamond and us is we dont have the:

    Full backs
    DM
    CMS

    to play it

    Thats a pretty big hole.
     
  12. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Paul Stalteri

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  13. billyiddo

    billyiddo Les Howe Staff Member

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    Im sure both Ndombele and Lo Celso are capable of playing CM in that setup
     
  14. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Barry Daines Staff Member

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    Understand your POV mate, but even with Glenn we also had Ossie and Galvin wide, it wasn’t all directed through the maestro, he was just so good he took charge of things! Can we just clone Glenn circa 81-84?!!!!
     
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  15. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Barry Daines Staff Member

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    Indeed, it is so blindingly obvious I believe some are cheating themselves of a pay-day!
     
  16. parklane1

    parklane1 Barry Daines

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    We did have other great players as you say but during that time i worked in Manchester and every time we travelled down the MI and in those days no one had a clue who/what the team was, and if we heard he was not playing i felt like turning round and going home. Of course we never did but i used to go in the ground early just to see him warm up and that was amazing and always felt sad when he was not fit.

    He was a one off, best English player i have seen and if he had been born in any other country he would have had far more caps then he got with England.
     
  17. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Edgar Davids

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    Do you not see how that notion of us suddenly downing tools for the Brighton game just doesn't make any sense. Why would the players do this suddenly in that game when actually put back in a 4-2-3-1 formation? Why didn't they instead do this in one of the numerous previous games played in the 4-4-2 diamond? I think it is clinging to a hope that our ills are all due to our diamond formation to decide that the players suddenly downed tools for this game. Maybe some of the ills from the diamond are also the 'players downing tools'?

    I posted in another post the first half stats from the Bayern game. We were 2-1 behind, but ahead on XG and also had more shots, more on target, more from inside the box etc. It wasn't perfect defensively (it wasn't anywhere near perfect - although a damn sight better than Brighton!) but from an attacking sense it was actually pretty good. We created more real chances in that opening half than we have done for a good while IMO with several one on ones.
     
    Last edited: 10 Oct 2019
    BrainOfLevy and billyiddo like this.
  18. Finney Is Back

    Finney Is Back Edgar Davids

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    I think we have the CMS to play it..... I think N'Dombele and Lo Celso are perfect for those roles. I think all of Sissoko, Winks and Lamela are reasonable understudies as well. Of course we lack a DM, hopefully either Dier can return to fitness and form, we can sign one in Jan or Winks can be taught to have a bit more defensive positional sense about his play.
    We are weak at full back I agree. Sessegnon could be the perfect athletic type player to play as a left back in a good 4-4-2 diamond so that leaves a right back... Seems that Poch wanted Atal in the summer - another who probably would've been perfect.
     
  19. nayimfromthehalfwayline

    nayimfromthehalfwayline Luka Modric

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    We have already more than established we have very different views on the Bayern game.

    Where you saw the shoots of a successfull high pressing diamond, I saw a team set up to fail. And fail they did.

    In both the players and managers words, at the end they had given up. Consider that, the players gave up. And openly admitted it.

    You zero in on Brighton so much, you miss the point. Damage already done at that point I fear.

    My honest reflection at this point is that Bayern is the moment he lost them. Things havent been especially good for a while, and while we can fault the players for focus, or concentration etc, I dont think we can fault them for effort.

    At the end of Bayern they gave up. And Brighton they didnt even try.

    You talk about things not making sense, your insistance on anything to do with Brighton - other than the players just not playing - means anything. That makes no sense.

    Your insistence on the Bayern first half as being any good makes no sense either. The players had to put such effort in to compensate for the issues the manager presented with the set up meant they were utterly spent by half time. There is no amount of xg to justify that as in any way positive.
     
  20. thfcsteff

    thfcsteff Barry Daines Staff Member

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    Absolutely. In fact, let's look through and see if a Hoddle thread is still around these parts. If not, I suggest we start a fresh one pronto so as we can wax lyrical.
     

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