Champions League 2015/16

[jaysea67]

UEFA have published the regulations for the 2015/16 Champions League and Europa League:

These include the anticipated changes to the CL group stage seeding. Pot 1 will now contain the previous year's CL winner and the domestic champions of the seven top-ranked associations. The other three pots will be decided in the normal way by the club's UEFA coefficient.

The significance is that England will only have one team in Pot 1. Unless Arsenal win the PL they will be in Pot 2. There is also a strong possibility that Emirates Marketing Project (if they qualify!) will be in Pot 3.

 

[Jordinho]

Possible pots (disregarding qualifying draws). Arsenal are only in pot 1 because Schalke won't get CL:

Pot 1
Real, Barca, Bayern, Chelsea, Atletico, Benfica, Porto, Arsenal
Pot 2
ManU, PSG, Valencia, Juventus, Zenit, Leverkusen, ManCity, Shaktar Donetsk

With new system:

Pot 1
Real, Barca, Bayern, Chelsea, Benfica, PSG, Juventus, Zenit

Pot 2
Atletico, Porto, Arsenal, ManU, Valencia, Leverkusen, Emirates Marketing Project, Shaktar Donetsk

Not a massive difference, three sides drop from pot 1 to pot 2. Could get interesting if Lyon win the French league, but otherwise I don't see any massive surprises (other than City losing in the playoffs).

 

[jaysea67]

Under the new system there could only be 2 Spanish teams in Pot 1 if one of them had won the CL and the other had won the Spanish title. In any other circumstance the team that aren't Spanish champions will drop to Pot 2 and be replaced in Pot 1 by the Dutch champions PSV. That would push the lowest ranked team from Pot 2, Shakhtar in the scenario above, into Pot 3.

As you say, Lyon winning the French league would change things further. So too would Napoli winning the EL - which would earn them CL entry and probably earn them enough coefficient points to be ranked ahead of Emirates Marketing Project.

 

[Jordinho]

Bayern will win the German league, Juventus the Italian and one of Real and Barca the Spanish. One of these team will also win the CL. My bet is all 4 will be in pot 1 as Real will win the CL the bastards.

 

[Neymar]

meh, i think the old system was better.

 

[billyiddo]

^Bit of joke though that a side like Arsenal, which hasn't won it's domestic title in over ten years or done anything of note in European competitions can get put in pot one every season alongside Champions and the biggest teams in Europe.

 

[Neymar]

^Bit of joke though that a side like Arsenal, which hasn't won it's domestic title in over ten years or done anything of note in European competitions can get put in pot one every season alongside Champions and the biggest teams in Europe.

i think whatever system used, theres going to be people that think another system is better. the reason i prefer the old method is because i think its more reflective of the actual abilities of the teams. ie. the likes of zenit and benfica will be in pot 1 in the new system, and they clearly arent one of the top 8 teams in europe. at least there was an argument that all of the teams in the old pot 1 were europe's best 8 teams.

i think now theres going to be a lot more scenarios whereby pot1 teams are going to be in tougher groups than some pot2 teams.

 

[billyiddo]

But it's the Champions League - at least this way actual Champions get aknowledged rather than also rans that happen to benefit from being from big leagues

 

[Jordinho]

They need to let more champions into it. It's the only way to save football, spreading the wealth across more leagues. I wish Chelsea, ManU, Real, Barca and the likes would just fudge off to their Super League and let us have proper, competitive leagues and cups again.

 

[Neymar]

But it's the Champions League

i get that, and on that basis, i guess the new method helps. but then why not fill pot 2 from the champions of weaker leagues too, and do the same with pot 3 and 4? I don't think "champions" in the competition title means anything tbh. its just a glossy name. i think this competition is about getting the best sides from europe to play against each other. and its since they made the changes to accomodate this, that the competition has exponentially grown to what become what it is now.

at least this way actual Champions get aknowledged rather than also rans that happen to benefit from being from big leagues

that argument can be applied the other way too: porto are benefitting from the fact that their league is bad. ie. their team is probably worse than even ours but because their league is bad, they win it easily. and get given ucl pot1 seedings. and also a side like Emirates Marketing Project arent as good as they are because their league is big. they are good because they have done the hard work and put in the investment required to make a team good. theyve put in far more work than a side like porto to make themselves good. but the new seeding method would reward a mediocre side like porto over Emirates Marketing Project.

i know what ive said is a bit tongue in cheek. but i think the ucl should be about the best vs the best. and having the likes of porto and zenit in pot 1 seedings detracts from this imo. and makes the competition less valuable.

 

[Jordinho]

i know what ive said is a bit tongue in cheek. but i think the ucl should be about the best vs the best. and having the likes of porto and zenit in pot 1 seedings detracts from this imo. and makes the competition less valuable.

You do know Benfica and Porto are ranked 6th and 7th overall in Europe? Arsenal 9th?

 

[Neymar]

They need to let more champions into it. It's the only way to save football, spreading the wealth across more leagues. I wish Chelsea, ManU, Real, Barca and the likes would just fudge off to their Super League and let us have proper, competitive leagues and cups again.

you do realise that if the top clubs would "fudge off to their Super League", there would be even less wealth to spread around to the remaining teams right? these top clubs effectively subsidise the other teams in their leagues. and in england they subsidise the entire football tree. thats why the football league clubs were happy to sign new rules that would enable the top pl clubs to poach their youth kids. they know , and are thankful for the subsidies they receive. fudging off to a super league is not something that the other teams want.

 

[Neymar]

You do know Benfica and Porto are ranked 6th and 7th overall in Europe? Arsenal 9th?

thats why i would say that even the current/old method isnt perfect. but i think the new method is even worse. and i think the way the coefficients are calculated should change too

 

[Jordinho]

you do realise that if the top clubs would "fudge off to their Super League", there would be even less wealth to spread around to the remaining teams right? these top clubs effectively subsidise the other teams in their leagues. and in england they subsidise the entire football tree. thats why the football league clubs were happy to sign new rules that would enable the top pl clubs to poach their youth kids. they know , and are thankful for the subsidies they receive. fudging off to a super league is not something that the other teams want.

They would be banned from all UEFA/FIFA/local FA competitions.

 

[Jordinho]

thats why i would say that even the current/old method isnt perfect. but i think the new method is even worse. and i think the way the coefficients are calculated should change too

Let me guess, clubs from the top 3 leagues should get more points for a win?

 

[billyiddo]

i get that, and on that basis, i guess the new method helps. but then why not fill pot 2 from the champions of weaker leagues too, and do the same with pot 3 and 4? I don't think "champions" in the competition title means anything tbh. its just a glossy name. i think this competition is about getting the best sides from europe to play against each other. and its since they made the changes to accomodate this, that the competition has exponentially grown to what become what it is now.



that argument can be applied the other way too: porto are benefitting from the fact that their league is bad. ie. their team is probably worse than even ours but because their league is bad, they win it easily. and get given ucl pot1 seedings. and also a side like Emirates Marketing Project arent as good as they are because their league is big. they are good because they have done the hard work and put in the investment required to make a team good. theyve put in far more work than a side like porto to make themselves good. but the new seeding method would reward a mediocre side like porto over Emirates Marketing Project.

i know what ive said is a bit tongue in cheek. but i think the ucl should be about the best vs the best. and having the likes of porto and zenit in pot 1 seedings detracts from this imo. and makes the competition less valuable.

I think it should be about champions v champions - but we aren't likely to get that but at least this is a step in the right direction. Id take it one further and as you suggest place other league winners in higher pots.

Porto/Zenit etc are Champions of their leagues and thus deserve to be classed ahead of teams like Arsenal and whoever else finishes as runner up (or 3rd/4th) in their domestic leagues, no matter how much money they have or how good their teams are.

 

[Jordinho]

The group stage of the current format is just incredibly boring because it's the same big clubs putting away dross then playing each other in the equally boring knock out rounds. Different teams from more leagues would make it a better competition. People living in the countries that are not the top 7 leagues shouldn't have to resort to supporting Chelsea and Real Madrid.

What was great about European competition in the past was that it was rare occasions.

 

[Neymar]

I think it should be about champions v champions - but we aren't likely to get that but at least this is a step in the right direction. Id take it one further and as you suggest place other league winners in higher pots.

Porto/Zenit etc are Champions of their leagues and thus deserve to be classed ahead of teams like Arsenal and whoever else finishes as runner up (or 3rd/4th) in their domestic leagues.

i think there is maybe scope to think about another short knockout cup competition where is just the champions of each league vs each other.

you could have all the champions of weaker leagues in the early rounds, and have champions of holland, portugal etc enter in a latter round, and then the champions of the pl, la liga enter in the final few rounds. just a thought.

 

[Neymar]

The group stage of the current format is just incredibly boring because it's the same big clubs putting away dross then playing each other in the equally boring knock out rounds. Different teams from more leagues would make it a better competition. People living in the countries that are not the top 7 leagues shouldn't have to resort to supporting Chelsea and Real Madrid.

they get to follow their team in the europa league

 

[Neymar]

They would be banned from all UEFA/FIFA/local FA competitions.

if/when the super league happens, uefa/fifa/local fa's will do everything to keep themselves relevant. just like they do today, when they pander to the needs of the big clubs.

those footballing bodies arent the attraction. people dont watch football competitions because its organised by uefa or fifa. they watch it because these competitions have the best teams competing in them. viewers will follow where the best teams compete.