Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[DubaiSpur]

I heavily disagree with his logic and his approach to the cups. But then, that shouldn't come as a surprise.

It'll be worth remembering this when the inevitable complaints come about his league cup team selections.

Not particularly, because I'll point it out regardless if he does end up fielding a weakened side. No excuse to overlook winnable trophies. None.

 

[milo]

Not particularly, because I'll point it out regardless if he does end up fielding a weakened side. No excuse to overlook winnable trophies. None.

It was obvious anyway but it is helpful for him to confirm what his priorities are

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I heavily disagree with his logic and his approach to the cups. But then, that shouldn't come as a surprise.



Not particularly, because I'll point it out regardless if he does end up fielding a weakened side. No excuse to overlook winnable trophies. None.

He's also not saying he doesn't want to win a cup. He's just challenging the 'we need to win a trophy otherwise we'll be failures' notion and I think he's absolutely right to do so. All of our progress and punching so far above our weight (we shouldn't ever forget that) doesn't count for nothing just because we don't win a league cup or Europa league.

 

[Spur of the moment]

He's also not saying he doesn't want to win a cup. He's just challenging the 'we need to win a trophy otherwise we'll be failures' notion and I think he's absolutely right to do so. All of our progress and punching so far above our weight (we shouldn't ever forget that) doesn't count for nothing just because we don't win a league cup or Europa league.

Spot on. I do not watch football purely to win trophies regardless of their merit. I watch football to see my team go all out to prove they are the best of the best and you only do that by winning the top trophies. The others are mere consolation prizes, nothing more.

 

[AdamB]

Spot on. I do not watch football purely to win trophies regardless of their merit. I watch football to see my team go all out to prove they are the best of the best and you only do that by winning the top trophies. The others are mere consolation prizes, nothing more.

Agreed - I think Poch is also challenging the team to be the best given that if you dont set out for that then given others will be, you'll fall well short. To win anything in any top sport you need to have that winning mentality, as though you are the best even if technically you aren't....kind of an arrogance. All the top teams have that and its part of what makes them what they are. Spurs have had a soft underbelly for far far too long so its great to have a manager who can get the players mentally right and turning them into winners. Natural ability can only take you so far

 

[DeleHarry]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40994946

some good analysis from Ruud Gullit. Basically he says Conte employed the famous Italian catenaccio tactics (parking the bus in english)

It's true though, Conte did what he had to do to get the result and it worked.

 

[parklane1]

In other words, as the great Billy Nich once said 'It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we at Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory.'

Poch's comments may disappoint certain posters on here who desperately hanker after ANY pot regardless. But in identifying his top priorities he is not also excluding the possibility of us also winning one (or more) of the others. He is simply acknowledging that success in the minor trophies must necessarily be a secondary aspiration. That is all.

Correct me if i am wrong but did we not win some pots under Billy Nick and only one Prem title? I understand WHAT you are trying to say but Sir Bill did not mean it the way you seem to be suggesting.

 

[parklane1]

Spot on. I do not watch football purely to win trophies regardless of their merit. I watch football to see my team go all out to prove they are the best of the best and you only do that by winning the top trophies. The others are mere consolation prizes, nothing more.

Again i know what you are trying to say ( even if we disagree) but the truth is Sir Bill only one lge title and i would disagree with ANYONE who says the other ones he won were NOT major honours.

 

[parklane1]

He's also not saying he doesn't want to win a cup. He's just challenging the 'we need to win a trophy otherwise we'll be failures' notion and I think he's absolutely right to do so. All of our progress and punching so far above our weight (we shouldn't ever forget that) doesn't count for nothing just because we don't win a league cup or Europa league.

Progress is great mate ( and we are showing lots of it) but i would disagree with anyone who says winning any trophy is NOT showing even further progress.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Cups are great too, I'd definitely love one, but I think the idea with Poch is that he's saying the top 2 trophies are the ones that matter when people say about Spurs that they 'need' a trophy otherwise is all for nothing, which is an accusation we face constantly now.

 

[parklane1]

Cups are great too, I'd definitely love one, but I think the idea with Poch is that he's saying the top 2 trophies are the ones that matter when people say about Spurs that they 'need' a trophy otherwise is all for nothing, which is an accusation we face constantly now.

I agree there are trophys which could be classed as higher then others, but winning any trophy is a sign of progress and as i have said before players LIKE to win things and if they go through their playing days with nothing in their cabinets at the end no amount of money with make up for that.

But that discussion has been talked about on here many times and i do not expect many ( if any) will change their opinions on it.

 

[Raziel]

I agree there are trophys which could be classed as higher then others, but winning any trophy is a sign of progress and as i have said before players LIKE to win things and if they go through their playing days with nothing in their cabinets at the end no amount of money with make up for that.

But that discussion has been talked about on here many times and i do not expect many ( if any) will change their opinions on it.

Any cup for us is progress, and helps kill the nearly narrative.

There are risks, no question over last few years, Wenger has focused on domestic trophies, got himself some results as well, however they lost their CL place for the first time in 20+ years.

 

[afsoc4life]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40994946

some good analysis from Ruud Gullit. Basically he says Conte employed the famous Italian catenaccio tactics (parking the bus in english)

It's true though, Conte did what he had to do to get the result and it worked.

Conte didnt play a sweeper. Conte played defensive but not catenaccio. It only worked because Spurs didnt finish their chances.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Correct me if i am wrong but did we not win some pots under Billy Nick and only one Prem title? I understand WHAT you are trying to say but Sir Bill did not mean it the way you seem to be suggesting.

Good point, you are absolutely correct but you know as well as I do the FA Cup in particular was a very different animal then compared with what it is now. Aiming high then certainly did mean the Cup as much as the League but you will not need me to remind you that Tottenham eschewed the League Cup in its early days because it was not seen as a significant prize. Sadly that is what has since become of the FA Cup these days, it is now a much reduced competition.

Again i know what you are trying to say ( even if we disagree) but the truth is Sir Bill only one lge title and i would disagree with ANYONE who says the other ones he won were NOT major honours.

Of course but like I said things were different then. By '71 and '73 when we won it even the League Cup had been elevated to major honour status. Even so it was still not as big as the League or FA Cup at the time.
(Ducks behind the sofa )

 

[Legohamster]

Conte didnt play a sweeper. Conte played defensive but not catenaccio. It only worked because Spurs didnt finish their chances.

We did not really have chances as such, few half chances.

 

[Legohamster]

To win nothing with this side would be criminal...

Even Ramos won a cup, what he is saying does have weight - but at the same time we have won three trophies since 91....

 

[BrainOfLevy]

To win nothing with this side would be criminal...

Even Ramos won a cup, what he is saying does have weight - but at the same time we have won three trophies since 91....

Doesn't that just show that almost anyone can win a League Cup if Ramos did with us? We were a worse side paying less in wages than we do now....but we won a cup. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things, securing players long term. They need to be challenging for the PL and CL.

 

[Gazza]

Doesn't that just show that almost anyone can win a League Cup if Ramos did with us? We were a worse side paying less in wages than we do now....but we won a cup. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things, securing players long term. They need to be challenging for the PL and CL.

Sorry but that seems a little black and white. You have better teams throughout the leagues these days in comparison.

Even by default i think we should learn what it takes to win and be a champion. People trace back certain runs for managers winning trophies starting with the whatever its called cup these days.

 

[parklane1]

Sorry but that seems a little black and white. You have better teams throughout the leagues these days in comparison.

Even by default i think we should learn what it takes to win and be a champion. People trace back certain runs for managers winning trophies starting with the whatever its called cup these days.

Indeed, its called getting a winning mentality and its what good teams do. There is nothing that builds confidence in players and staff as winning things. It might be a good thing getting runners up and similar but nothing comperes to actually getting that winners medal. Most who have played sport at a good level and won things would agree i have no doubt.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Indeed, its called getting a winning mentality and its what good teams do. There is nothing that builds confidence in players and staff as winning things. It might be a good thing getting runners up and similar but nothing comperes to actually getting that winners medal. Most who have played sport at a good level and won things would agree i have no doubt.

Yes that can happen but equally it can go painfully the other way. Of course we'd all much rather forget what happened after our magnificent LC win in 2008 but you oblige me to bring it up yet again. Because our slump in form after that win ended up with the sack for Ramos eight months later following a desperate run that yielded just three wins from our next 22 PL games, including the infamous two points in eight games at the start of the following season.

Here's a few more examples of cup runs that did not work out well in the League:

Wigan Athletic- FA Cup winners and relegation 2012/13
Birmingham City - LC winners & relegation 2010/11 (after winning just two of their remaining 12 PL games)
Portsmouth - FA Cup finalists and relegation 2009/10